I was clinically dead due to total AV heart block

[Carrikature]

hi Carr, i was the first amener, it was a combination of things for me. You mentioned you were 'called out' on amening before? How did that work, I can't imagine someone telling me what to amen

It wasn't that someone told me not to amen something. It was more a case of my agreeing with multiple parts of someone else's post, but not all of them. As I recall, it was an issue of a 3rd party trying to figure out what I was arguing for/against based partly on what I was amen'ing in that thread. At the time, I wasn't pointing out my dissent with what I considered side-issues to the main thrust of a post, so it was taken for complete agreement. It led to a fair bit of confusion and false accusations. Where I spend most of my time (Nat Sci, Philosophy, Apologetics), amens are used to imply agreement with what another is saying. Using amen for other reasons seems to be the exception rather than the rule, and that applies to the entire forum as far as I can tell.

The OP doesn't have much to amen based on my perspective. It's cool that Alan survived this event. NDEs are extremely subjective, though, and at least part of this one (the tree of knowledge, specifically) contains imagery that provides an excellent mental picture without having any real basis on a supposed other-realm or not.

[Alan McDougall]

• Edited by a Moderator •

Thank you for your understanding comments instead of the disbelief people have for this type of real experience.

I will go to your link below immediately Doug

I wrote this after the event that night because some people just dismiss it as a hallucination or dream.

Differences between the near death experience and hallucinations or dreaming

Many people think that NDE are just hallucinations, dreams or visions caused by oxygen starvation of the brain while in a state of crises.

Let’s look at these options below,

Before much was known about the phenomenon of the NDE, they were simply dismissed by doctors and others as hallucinations or a by-product of the increasingly dysfunctional brain during its dying process.

Unlike the mostly vivid and beautiful, peaceful, lucid, ordered and logical NDE hallucinations are varied, bizarre, and extremely idiosyncratic and peculiar and upsetting in content Hallucinations take place while the person is awake, while most NDE take place when the person is clinically dead,

Virtually all NDEs display a logical progression of identifiable stages and take place most of the time when the person was clinically dead as was in my NDE last August 2012

Those who have experienced both NDE and hallucinations say that they are profoundly different, the first peaceful and beautiful, the other disturbing in the extreme.

Dreams are like wise mostly symbolic or nonsensical in content


Here are the general stages of most NDE

Stage one, at the moment of clinical death there is a deep profound sense of well-being of such peace beyond words to describe a total peace never explained adequately in words on return to life. It can be such a transcended experience that there is a relief from all earthly concerns

Stage two, is the separation of the body with many people saying their hearing, sight are extremely acute some blind people say for the first time they are able to see by what I call mind- sight. Some people enter what is called the realm of darkness or void but never remain there, just call for the light and you are in the light

Stage three, is when most people feel that their is a decision to be made, whether the shall continue on this journey or return to the living Here most often the life review happens, which is generally positive not reproachful or condemning

Then a presence (Being of Light) appears which usually communicates directly mind to mind by some sort of telepathy. Some are taken by this entity of long deep and profound journeys into strange realms, planes and dimensions, some claim to have even observed the creation of the universe with this Being of Light. I think they are angels.

Many people say they then see the spirits of deceased loved ones. At this stage some are asked to make a decision either to return to life or remain, of course they are told to go back some try really hard to bargain with the light entity to remain but are sent back, nevertheless

Stage four, typically at this stage it is seeing the LIGHT as was in my case the light replaced the darkness by a brilliant golden light, which I am sure was God most NDEs simply end at this time!

Then some go on to actually enter the LIGHT, which is like entering another world of unspeakable beauty, with beautiful flowers, butterflies gardens, meadows and colours of extreme beauty that don’t exist in the physical plane

Stage five, you are gone and never return to those on earth you are dead

I think this is paradise Eden reclaimed.

I don’t think these stages are set in stone; one might skip some or even go through other stages that I am not aware of, yet

I hope this has proved interesting to the forum!!

Love

Alan

[RBerman]

Here is a very effective and creepy science fiction (in the truest sense of the word) novel about NDEs, for any readers out there.

[Carrikature]

Here is a very effective and creepy science fiction (in the truest sense of the word) novel about NDEs, for any readers out there.

I'll see if the library has it.

[Adrift]

I was told by Theologins that after we die we go into a state of "Soul Sleep" waiting the resurrection

Some Theologians hold that, but I'm not sure how popular the view is overall. As I understand it, theologians like N.T. Wright hold that the dead in Christ are brought into the presence of Jesus where they are in peaceful, yet conscious rest awaiting the resurrection. I believe (but could be wrong) that the common view is that those not in Christ are in that part of Sheol that had always been reserved for the wicked awaiting final judgement. The view most orthodox theologians seem to have in common is that heaven is not the cloudy city with harps and golden streets made popular in some Christian hymns, poems, and in the secular media. Nor do we become angels or any of that sort of thing. We are disembodied spirits until the final resurrection.

Concerning NDEs, I'm a bit wary of them at this time. I'm sure those who've experienced them believe very much they are the real deal, and perhaps they are, but so many of these NDEs present differing views from one another, and from orthodox Christian doctrine that I'm of the opinion that they're either psychological, or perhaps even demonic in nature.

[Livelystone]

• Edited by a Moderator •

[Carrikature]

Some Theologians hold that, but I'm not sure how popular the view is overall. As I understand it, theologians like N.T. Wright hold that the dead in Christ are brought into the presence of Jesus where they are in peaceful, yet conscious rest awaiting the resurrection. I believe (but could be wrong) that the common view is that those not in Christ are in that part of Sheol that had always been reserved for the wicked awaiting final judgement. The view most orthodox theologians seem to have in common is that heaven is not the cloudy city with harps and golden streets made popular in some Christian hymns, poems, and in the secular media. Nor do we become angels or any of that sort of thing. We are disembodied spirits until the final resurrection.

Concur.

Concerning NDEs, I'm a bit wary of them at this time. I'm sure those who've experienced them believe very much they are the real deal, and perhaps they are, but so many of these NDEs present differing views from one another, and from orthodox Christian doctrine that I'm of the opinion that they're either psychological, or perhaps even demonic in nature.

Meh, I wouldn't posit demonic activity, either. I am leery of claims to special knowledge, which sometimes seem to derive from NDEs. The area of brain death and what our brains can do is so poorly understood that I usually refrain from conjecture. I don't question so much that people have them, more that I am unsure it means what they think it means.

[Sapphi]

OP, that's fascinating. If I may be so bold as to ask, did your NDE have any bearing on how you lived your life afterwards? I know that we walk by faith and not by sight, but I can't help imagining that if I had such an experience and truly believed I had seen Heaven, I would live my life 500% more passionately for Christ... (What am I saying?! I should be doing this already... )

On the topic in general, does anybody know of any accounts where people met individuals other than departed loved ones they knew in this life? I'm curious to see if anybody claims to have met any of the Apostles or other famous saints.

[theblueprint_Ni]

OP, that's fascinating. If I may be so bold as to ask, did your NDE have any bearing on how you lived your life afterwards? I know that we walk by faith and not by sight, but I can't help imagining that if I had such an experience and truly believed I had seen Heaven, I would live my life 500% more passionately for Christ... (What am I saying?! I should be doing this already... )

On the topic in general, does anybody know of any accounts where people met individuals other than departed loved ones they knew in this life? I'm curious to see if anybody claims to have met any of the Apostles or other famous saints.

Jesse Duplantis. He's a pentecostal preacher. He claims to have met all kinds of people in heaven. including Abraham. His testimony comes complete in 4 "gospel"-like accounts. Take what you will from that.

I can take these accounts with a grain of salt from a Christian person. I also think there's a reason why Paul didn't share his experience of being spirited away to heaven. It wasn't related to prophecy and likely would have been misunderstood by others. I've heard many stories retold by unbelievers concerning their NDE. They've spoken of a being of indescribable light emanating love and warmth, guiding them through a higher dimension. They return to the world of the living and often lead cleaner, more spiritual lives. Problem is, God's light is described in Scripture as piercing and too awesome to withstand. It's not really a comfortable, warm experience. It's convicting and dreadful more often than not. That's not what we tend to hear with NDEs. NDEs that don't result in true repentance and faith in Christ are surely Satanic. He is after all the god of this world, the prince and power of the air. It's not surprising to me that some who get spirited away are actually roaming around in the abode of demons, being strung along in a great series of deception.

[Alan McDougall]

Jesse Duplantis. He's a pentecostal preacher. He claims to have met all kinds of people in heaven. including Abraham. His testimony comes complete in 4 "gospel"-like accounts. Take what you will from that.

I can take these accounts with a grain of salt from a Christian person. I also think there's a reason why Paul didn't share his experience of being spirited away to heaven. It wasn't related to prophecy and likely would have been misunderstood by others. I've heard many stories retold by unbelievers concerning their NDE. They've spoken of a being of indescribable light emanating love and warmth, guiding them through a higher dimension. They return to the world of the living and often lead cleaner, more spiritual lives. Problem is, God's light is described in Scripture as piercing and too awesome to withstand. It's not really a comfortable, warm experience. It's convicting and dreadful more often than not. That's not what we tend to hear with NDEs. NDEs that don't result in true repentance and faith in Christ are surely Satanic. He is after all the god of this world, the prince and power of the air. It's not surprising to me that some who get spirited away are actually roaming around in the abode of demons, being strung along in a great series of deception.

Well in my NDE there were absolutely no demons or angels! I think instead of Christians telling each other that they are/were under deception, they should read there account in light of scripture. My experience was too short and I only had brief memories of it.

Let us all read Psalm 101, and Psalm 51 below and abide by them and then we will have a perfect walk with God

Create in Me a Clean Heart, O God
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Psalm 51

51 Have mercy on me,1 O God,

according to your steadfast love;

according to your abundant mercy

blot out my transgressions.

2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,

and cleanse me from my sin!

3 For I know my transgressions,

and my sin is ever before me.

4 Against you, you only, have I sinned

and done what is evil din your sight,

so that you may be justified in your words

and blameless in your judgment.

5 Behold, for I was brought forth in iniquity,

and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being,

and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;

wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8 Let me hear joy and gladness;

let the bones that you have broken rejoice.

9 Hide your face from my sins,

and blot out all my iniquities.

10 Create in me a unclean heart, O God,

and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from your presence,

and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation,

and uphold me with a willing spirit.

13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,

and sinners will return to you.

14 Deliver me from blood guiltiness, O God,

O God of my salvation,

and my tongue will sing aloud of your righteousness.

15 O Lord, open my lips,

and my mouth will declare your praise.

16 For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it;

you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;

a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

18 Do good to Zion in your good pleasure;

build up the walls of Jerusalem;

19 then will you delight in aright sacrifices,

in burnt offerings and whole burnt offerings;

then bulls will be offered on your altar.

then bulls will be offered on your altar.

[xcav8tor]

Hi Alan,

Hi I have been Christian for over forty years now. I was told by Theologins that after we die we go into a state of "Soul Sleep" waiting the resurrection, my experience lst August 2011 seems to invalidate that belief. I would be pleased by any thoughts on the matter by the forum?

To the best of my understanding, the Bible does not teach soul sleep. The few verses which some (mostly in cults) use to support this notion are taken out of context. Jesus' account of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 indicated that both the saved (Abraham and Lazarus) and the lost (the rich man) were conscious after death. That this is not a parable is indicated by the use by Jesus of personal names. Their consciousness is demonstrated in Abraham comforting Lazarus and in the dialogue between Abraham and the rich man. John in Revelation 6 also describes the souls of the martyrs crying out to God, confirming their disembodied yet conscious state. There are other passages which refute soul sleep, but these should suffice.

Alan McDougall died numerous times due to heart block/and came back... On the 18th August 2011 I died numerous times on the resuscitation table due to third stage Total “AV” Heart Block... If I had any doubts about life after death I have none now, each time my heart stopped my soul or consciousness left my body and went into other dimensions of existence.

Back on February 27, 2011, I myself suffered a severe heart attack. I had just finished 2 1/2 hours of shoveling snow and had an odd feeling in my neck and upper chest. After checking my blood sugar (which was fine) I checked my blood pressure only to find it dropped dramatically in 3 successive readings. I was going to sit down in my Lazyboy but decided I should go upstairs and tell my wife I "wasn't feeling right." She said I looked white and called for the ambulance and in a matter of minutes there were 8 firemen and paramedics in our living room. As they lifted me into the ambulance I passed out. They immediately performed CPR and told me later, "You asked us to take away the mask from your face (as we tried to push extra oxygen into your lungs), you told us that your chest hurt and that you had a headache, and (my favourite) that you were “so tired that you just couldn’t keep your eyes open.' You were the only patient that I have ever had to tell that their heart was not, at that point, beating." Then they had to jump start me with the paddles four or five times, and then more CPR at the hospital (leaving me with a hand-shaped bruise on my chest).

I had one brief instance of consciousness when the doctor informed me I was at the hospital and had had a heart attack. Up til then I thought/hoped I had been dreaming, then I blacked out again. Turns out the main artery supplying blood to my heart was 95% blocked and they had to perform an angioplasty to insert a stent. Because they had gotten to me so quickly there was only 20% damage to the lower part of my heart, and about 6 months after completing rehab my cardiologist told me (based on my test results) that it was "almost as if I had never had a heart attack!" Praise God! I feel the same now as I did before the event - perfectly healthy and able to do everything I did before. It's as if it didn't even happen - though I know it did. I decided to celebrate my survival each Feb. 27 and am now looking forward to my second anniversary.

I only remembered a little of what went on in those three hours of life and death struggle but lately have begun to remember more and more about the strange otherworldly realms I saw over the period of three hours. Each time they got my heart to beat I came back...

Unlike you, however, I did not experience any glimpses of the afterlife. I find this somewhat odd after hearing of other cases like yours where every time the heart stopped, the person's soul left the body and they either saw their body below or some other spiritual vision of the other side. It makes me wonder why some have this experience, and others don't. I don't believe it's a matter of me forgetting, because of the dialogue I had with the paramedic (though I don't actually remember our coversation, I expect that had I seen something other-worldly, I would have mentioned it at the time and it would not be the kind of thing the paramedic would ever forget).

Note if my friend did not phone me at the exact moment he did, I would never have woken up and died in my sleep

Just like me. Had I sat down in the chair like I was first inclined to, I probably would have never got up and my wife would have come downstairs to find me "gone." But everything fell right into place - me going upstairs, my wife calling 911 - the paramedics appearing so quickly - and their best surgeon being on hand, followed by an amazing recovery. The Lord was clearly looking out for me that day. My wife kept telling me for months afterwards, "I'm so glad you're not dead!"

I now have a permanent pacemaker in my chest which should last ten years and despite the great shock I am felling very alive and well.

I'm also sporting hardware, but a mesh tube is more "low tech." I am not quite the sophisticated "bionic man" you are.

Regards,
xcav8tor

[Alan McDougall]

Hi, xcav8tor
Thanks for the nice post, in response to the other members post about Jesse Duplantis I have seen him preach and find him most unlikable, full of pride and puffed up, so I would take anything he says with a pinch of salt.

There are cases of NDE where complete atheists have had very profound NDE Look at the case of Romanian man below, it in few videos try to look at all of them , it is very heartwarming

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZBRe...eature=related