Immortality?..live forever?...do you want it?...I don't know

[One Bad Pig]

Seems to me that it should be an important question. I mean, the whole point of your faith is "everlasting life." You don't even know what that entails!

Buddhists know. Muslims know. Mormons know.

Why don't you?

For a religion preoccupied with heaven, you would think there would be more details.

I'm just curious.

We know more than you're implying here. We'll be in the presence of God, on a re-created Earth, with no more sin or death, living in complete harmony with God and His creation. We'll still be growing in knowledge, so I have that to look forward to as well.

Personally, I'm jazzed about THIS life. As far as I'm concerned, death is no big deal. It's not as if one ever "experiences" it. Dead is not a state of BEING.

Live life wastefully!!!

NORM

You're also in the top 1% (or close to that) in this life; congratulations for enjoying that. You're also something of an anomaly concerning your views on death. Death tends to be a bigger deal to those with nothing to look forward to after it. And contrary to your assertion, everyone experiences it.

[Jedidiah]

Buddhists know. Muslims know. Mormons know.

Why don't you?

We did not make up our God. We do not know everything about His plans.

[Tassman]

We did not make up our God. We do not know everything about His plans.

Well no, not you personally. But there is good reason to believe that your/our tribal forebears did. Where else could he have come from?

[NormATive]

We know more than you're implying here. We'll be in the presence of God, on a re-created Earth, with no more sin or death, living in complete harmony with God and His creation. We'll still be growing in knowledge, so I have that to look forward to as well.

That's not the question at hand. What body will you dwell? The baby you, the teenage you, the middle age you or the elder you? How will those who passed many years before you recognize you?

You're also in the top 1% (or close to that) in this life; congratulations for enjoying that.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

You're also something of an anomaly concerning your views on death. Death tends to be a bigger deal to those with nothing to look forward to after it. And contrary to your assertion, everyone experiences it.

Not really. Have you ever heard of the Stoics of ancient Greece? They had the same perspective.

How can you experience death? You experience dying, but not death. Because .... you're dead! Brain functions cease. No brain activity: no consciousness. Therefore, you never "experience" death. Death is not a state of being - there is no more being.

NORM

[NormATive]

We did not make up our God. We do not know everything about His plans.

Sorry to hear that your god left you out of the loop.

I think the Mormons have a better story. It's kind of fun! I mean, who wouldn't want to have magic underwear?

NORM

[One Bad Pig]

That's not the question at hand. What body will you dwell? The baby you, the teenage you, the middle age you or the elder you? How will those who passed many years before you recognize you?

I already gave you as much answer on that as you're going to get from me. Even if people aren't immediately recognizable, we can ask God to identify them for us.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

You're well-educated, and presumably compensated to match, and live in a place and time when even the "poor" have television sets, let alone electricity and indoor plumbing. For you, unlike the vast majority of people now and in the past, life is good. Why shouldn't you be jazzed about it?

Not really. Have you ever heard of the Stoics of ancient Greece? They had the same perspective.

That's because they believed that everything, including death, was inevitable. And they tended to be well off, too.

How can you experience death? You experience dying, but not death. Because .... you're dead! Brain functions cease. No brain activity: no consciousness. Therefore, you never "experience" death. Death is not a state of being - there is no more being.

NORM

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[NormATive]

I already gave you as much answer on that as you're going to get from me. Even if people aren't immediately recognizable, we can ask God to identify them for us.

Then, you need to study your faith a little more, or trade it in on one that answers these basic questions.

You're well-educated, and presumably compensated to match, and live in a place and time when even the "poor" have television sets, let alone electricity and indoor plumbing. For you, unlike the vast majority of people now and in the past, life is good. Why shouldn't you be jazzed about it?

I don't disagree that we live in a land of opportunity, but I've been jazzed about life since as long as I can remember - even when we lived in the ghetto. I also spent a long time living in a small village in Haiti. It is there that I learned most profoundly how to live in the moment. These people didn't even have running water or indoor plumbing. We had to climb down the side of a plateau to get water for the day in 5 gallon buckets we carried on long poles dangling on either side of our shoulders.

It's all about attitude. You don't have to be rich to enjoy life. Keeping your eyes focused on some nirvana in the sky where the streets are paved with gold makes this life seem less worthy. I feel sorry for you, dude.

That's because they believed that everything, including death, was inevitable. And they tended to be well off, too.

The Stoics? No, they were philosophers who lived day to day - the wealthy maintained fealty to the gods (who helped keep the rabble in check).

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

It's not a matter of opinion - it's a matter of science. When you die, your brain functions cease. There is no sensation - bad or good - at that point. Therefore, you don't "experience" death. You only experience dying.

NORM

[One Bad Pig]

Then, you need to study your faith a little more, or trade it in on one that answers these basic questions.

Why? I'm quite content with the answers I have. Fortunately, I'm not bound by what YOU consider important.

I don't disagree that we live in a land of opportunity, but I've been jazzed about life since as long as I can remember - even when we lived in the ghetto. I also spent a long time living in a small village in Haiti. It is there that I learned most profoundly how to live in the moment. These people didn't even have running water or indoor plumbing. We had to climb down the side of a plateau to get water for the day in 5 gallon buckets we carried on long poles dangling on either side of our shoulders.

Cool. How many of those people believed this life is all there is?

It's all about attitude. You don't have to be rich to enjoy life.

I agree, you don't have to be rich to enjoy life.

Keeping your eyes focused on some nirvana in the sky where the streets are paved with gold makes this life seem less worthy. I feel sorry for you, dude.

Dude, that makes no sense. Nirvana is a Buddhist concept literally meaning "nothingness." The pop culture view of heaven you're ascribing to me is wrong. Lastly, life after death doesn't make this life seem any less worthy; it just means I'm less stressed about what happens during this one.

The Stoics? No, they were philosophers who lived day to day - the wealthy maintained fealty to the gods (who helped keep the rabble in check).

As far as I'm aware, pretty much all the Stoics we know about were wealthy or could rely on the finances of someone who was.

Epicureanism tended to be favored in the ranks in Rome's military, while Stoicism appealed more to members of the Senate and other political movers and shakers. Many Roman politicians at least adopted the high moral tone of Stoicism according to which only virtue is a genuine good, while money, health and even life itself are simply preferred indifferents. Roman political figures associated with Stoicism include Cato the Younger and Scipio Aemilianus (though some of the claims made in earlier scholarship about Greek philosophy and culture and the Scipionic Circle are now regarded with some suspicion). Marcus Brutus (the friend of Cicero who took part in the murder of Julius Caesar) professed Stoicism but was not above engaging in loan-sharking (hence the joke that he was a man of high principles and even higher interest).

It's not a matter of opinion - it's a matter of science. When you die, your brain functions cease. There is no sensation - bad or good - at that point. Therefore, you don't "experience" death. You only experience dying.

NORM

If you're assuming we don't have souls, yes.

[NormATive]

Why? I'm quite content with the answers I have. Fortunately, I'm not bound by what YOU consider important.

OK. I think Mormons and JW's have cooler afterlife stories.

Cool. How many of those people believed this life is all there is?

Most of them. Even the ones who "profess" Christianity do not believe in an afterlife. I learned to speak Creole (something the Missionaries refused to do), and the things they told me were quite surprising. It certainly explained their almost boundless energy and zest for life. They believed that what we call the Holy Spirit is really something that possesses us during our lifetimes and then leaves our bodies when we die. Not exactly reincarnation, but something similar. I also attended many Voodun ceremonies where they incorporated elements of the Catholic Eucharist into the rituals. It was very cool - lots of dancing! I never had so much fun in all my life.

Dude, that makes no sense. Nirvana is a Buddhist concept literally meaning "nothingness." The pop culture view of heaven you're ascribing to me is wrong. Lastly, life after death doesn't make this life seem any less worthy; it just means I'm less stressed about what happens during this one.

Heh! Sorry, I was trying to be a wise ass - apparently, not very successfully.

What is your view of heaven (and I mean what you REALLY think - not what your church denomination doctrine says), if you don't mind me asking? I'm sort of collecting people's thoughts on heaven. It's amazing how people can differ even within the same church.

As far as I'm aware, pretty much all the Stoics we know about were wealthy or could rely on the finances of someone who was.

]

Well, you may be right about their actual wealth or status, but, it was my understanding that material wealth was of little importance to the Stoics. Anyway, that wasn't my point. I admire their attitude toward life and death.

If you're assuming we don't have souls, yes.

Agreed.

NORM