Chris Matthews: "Obama is perfect."

[technomage]

Bush was disappointing, but Obama is pretty much what I expected from looking into his past. The only good to come out of Obama was the election of a black man as president, but - as has been pointed out to me more than once - Obama is not really a black man. "Thewriteranon" and his contribution not withstanding I see nothing right that Obama has done.
thewriteranon

I have to admit, I don't have a dog in the "Democrat vs. Republican" fight anymore. I am still registered to vote, but I no longer have a party affiliation.

Part of the problems I see with such assessments is that both Bush and Obma have had rather obstructionist Congresses. Both have faced terrible (and completely reprehensible) dishonest attacks from their political opponents. Either was lucky to accomplish anything.

In President Bush's case ... I think Bush would have made an absolutely stellar peacetime president. 9/11 and the aftermath would be well beyond the ability of anyone to handle, but even though he was out of his depth, (and, I'm fairly certain, knew he was out of his depth) he did his best to rise above his limitations, to protect America from further attacks, and to allow us to stand proud and strong again. Did he succeed in everything he tried? No ... but he did the best he could, under circumstances more trying than either one of us have faced. I know, even if I am disappointed with his term, I could not do as well as he did.

For President Obama ... Jed, were I to list the accomplishments that he did whilst crediting them to a Republican president, I have no doubts you would applaud many of them. The Health Care Law was originally the brainchild of one of the most conservative/libertarian think tanks in the United States ... but because it was a Democrat who rolled up his sleeves and got the job done, all of a sudden it's anathema.

It's part of the reason I no longer affiliate with either party--while the Presidents are doing the best they can, the opposition (regardless of which side of the aisle the opposition sits on) is doing everything they can to tear him down, regardless of the cost to the American people.

It's one of the reasons I sometimes fear for this nation.

[KingsGambit]

If you're going to dislike a politician there should, apart from personality clashes, really be only two reasons: 1. policy, 2. whether or not they have been excessively hypocritical (all polly's are hypocritical on some level)

I might add a third: Promoting flagrantly immoral behavior. There was a case in the US where a prominent pornography magnate tried to run for president under, I think, a fiscally conservative platform. He wasn't hypocritical because he was upfront about his approach to morality, but I still couldn't have supported him.

[technomage]

I might add a third: Promoting flagrantly immoral behavior. There was a case in the US where a prominent pornography magnate tried to run for president under, I think, a fiscally conservative platform. He wasn't hypocritical because he was upfront about his approach to morality, but I still couldn't have supported him.

Actually, I would tend to trust such a one more than most politicians--many of whom have morals that are just as bad, but lie about them.

[KingsGambit]

Actually, I would tend to trust such a one more than most politicians--many of whom have morals that are just as bad, but lie about them.

Lest you think I think of morals in such limited terms, I think the biggest moral lapse of a prominent US politician in recent years may have been Rick Perry's seeming uninterest in determining the truth of what happened in the Willingham case.

[thewriteranon]

Well, Perry's an Aggie. What can you expect?

/obligatoryaggiejibe

[technomage]

Lest you think I think of morals in such limited terms, I think the biggest moral lapse of a prominent US politician in recent years may have been Rick Perry's seeming uninterest in determining the truth of what happened in the Willingham case.

Agreed. While I am not opposed to capital punishment, if the phrase "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword" holds any truth whatsoever, I fear for Texas.

[Raphael]

I might add a third: Promoting flagrantly immoral behavior. There was a case in the US where a prominent pornography magnate tried to run for president under, I think, a fiscally conservative platform. He wasn't hypocritical because he was upfront about his approach to morality, but I still couldn't have supported him.

I do agree, but would that not be a part of the policy category?
For example what I really don't like about Obama is his policies on abortion. I think they are morally reprehensible and promoting an immoral behaviour. (to others let's not get into the debate about whether those policies are good or bad right now, I don't like 'em and I think they are wrong, which is my point.)
As for his fiscal policies, while I think he's handled it badly, and I disagree with them, he did inherit a mess that stems back to atleast when Clinton was president so while he shares some of the blame, I think your politicians on both sides are just as covered in muck on that one. And I don't dislike him over that one.

[rogue06]

Part of the problems I see with such assessments is that both Bush and Obma have had rather obstructionist Congresses.

Except for the first two years (half of his presidency) when his party held the sort of overwhelming control in both Houses that presidents dream of.

[JimL]

Except for the first two years (half of his presidency) when his party held the sort of overwhelming control in both Houses that presidents dream of.

Are you insinuating that nothing on the Presidents and the democratic agenda got done in his first two years? Perhaps you should go back and take a look see. The legislative achievments passed by that congress and signed into law by Obama in his first two years was recordbreaking.

[Raphael]

Are you insinuating that nothing on the Presidents and the democratic agenda got done in his first two years? Perhaps you should go back and take a look see. The legislative achievments passed by that congress and signed into law by Obama in his first two years was recordbreaking.

I think Rogue was insinuating that in the first half of his presidency Obama had a very tame congress and was able to push his own agenda with much greater ease than he can at the moment.


quite the opposite of what for some reason you thought Rogue was insinuating.

[Jedidiah]

For President Obama ... Jed, were I to list the accomplishments that he did whilst crediting them to a Republican president, I have no doubts you would applaud many of them. The Health Care Law was originally the brainchild of one of the most conservative/libertarian think tanks in the United States ... but because it was a Democrat who rolled up his sleeves and got the job done, all of a sudden it's anathema.

First of all, no conservative came up with the absurd version of the "Health Care" law we ended up with. There may have been conservative versions or conservatives in name only came up with a similar ridiculous bit of legislation. I don't care who supports it or who came up with the idea, what we got was an abomination.

[Seasanctuary]

For President Obama ... Jed, were I to list the accomplishments that he did whilst crediting them to a Republican president, I have no doubts you would applaud many of them. The Health Care Law was originally the brainchild of one of the most conservative/libertarian think tanks in the United States ... but because it was a Democrat who rolled up his sleeves and got the job done, all of a sudden it's anathema.

Many opponents don't even know what the Affordable Care Act does; they just know that it's labeled "Obamacare" and that makes it BAD. I'm very disgusted with conservative radio hosts who spend hours and hours of what could be educational time just lying about and otherwise misrepresenting the whole issue. Their audiences should be upset too because this is prepackaging an opinion without first trusting audiences with the facts.

I'm ranting because I recently had a conversation with family members about the Act and it was amazing how little they knew about anything but the oft-repeated radio lies/distortions, e.g: that Congress and the President made exceptions for themselves so they don't have to "use Obamacare" for their families.

[technomage]

Except for the first two years (half of his presidency) when his party held the sort of overwhelming control in both Houses that presidents dream of.

To be more accurate, between the delays in swearing in Frankin, recesses, and the death of Ted Kennedy, the Democrats only had a fillibuster-proof supermajority for about six months of that two years.

[technomage]

First of all, no conservative came up with the absurd version of the "Health Care" law we ended up with.

No? Both the insurance exchange and the individual mandate come straight from the Heritage Foundation. Or if you don't like that statement, you can always Daniel McCarthy of American Conservative:

"Every think tank on the left and right knows that its recommendations will undergo some deformation before they make their way into law, if they ever do," McCarthy told PolitiFact. "Heritage might prefer state insurance exchanges with greater individual choice, including for workers already covered by their employers. But I don't imagine Ed Feulner would be complaining at all if a Republican president or a Republican Congress had passed a plan that deviated from the Heritage blueprint to the same degree that Obama's bill has. While it's not true that 'lots of' the specifics in the Obama plan were dreamed up by Heritage, the overall approach is similar to policies Heritage has long championed, including the individual mandate as well as the insurance exchanges. This is only controversial because the wrong party happened to pass the law, and it's poison for any conservative to be identified with it."

Emphasis added.

[MaxVel]

Maybe I'm a bit late to the party, but as an outsider it seems to me that saying of someone who dislikes Obama, or thinks Obama has goofed 'You're saying that because you're a racist' is an example of the Genetic fallacy. I mean someone could be a racist and also be right that Obama is a bad president, or has goofed in some particular area or policy.


And perhaps the same fallacy applies to 'You're just saying that because you're a conservative/Republican/Democrat/liberal/South African' jibes as well...


Just sayin'