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US Presidential Pardons

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  • US Presidential Pardons

    From WaPo:

    Some of President Trump’s lawyers are... discussing the president’s authority to grant pardons, according to people familiar with the effort.

    Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself

    US Presidential pardons of the powerful and politically connected have been a bit of a joke since Nixon was pardoned by his own previously-Vice President Gerald Ford. Since then, to pick a couple of egregious examples, Bush Snr pardoned 6 people involved in the Iran-Contra scandal, and Bill Clinton pardoned some of those he was himself involved with. While Obama used the presidential pardon power slightly more constructively, as a policy tool, to reduce the length of the sentences for ~1700 non-violent drug offenders who had been subjected to particularly long mandatory sentences as a result of the War on Drugs.

    The ability of a president to issue pardons has always struck me as bizarre and ridiculous.

    When visiting Vanuatu recently, I was amused to read that the VP and half a dozen ministers were being indicted on corruption charges, so while the president was out of the country visiting France, the VP was acting president and took the opportunity to pardon himself and all the ministers involved in his corruption scandal. The president was not amused upon returning and finding out what had happened.

    It seems to me that the American presidential pardon powers are just dumb, and the nations that have copied them are silly to do so.

    How many of Trump's family and administration will end up being pardoned by Trump or Pence or Ryan? Punishment for crimes is something that applies to only the poor and weak in the US and not the rich and powerful I guess.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

  • #2
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    From WaPo:

    Some of President Trump’s lawyers are... discussing the president’s authority to grant pardons, according to people familiar with the effort.

    Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself

    US Presidential pardons of the powerful and politically connected have been a bit of a joke since Nixon was pardoned by his own previously-Vice President Gerald Ford. Since then, to pick a couple of egregious examples, Bush Snr pardoned 6 people involved in the Iran-Contra scandal, and Bill Clinton pardoned some of those he was himself involved with. While Obama used the presidential pardon power slightly more constructively, as a policy tool, to reduce the length of the sentences for ~1700 non-violent drug offenders who had been subjected to particularly long mandatory sentences as a result of the War on Drugs.

    The ability of a president to issue pardons has always struck me as bizarre and ridiculous.

    When visiting Vanuatu recently, I was amused to read that the VP and half a dozen ministers were being indicted on corruption charges, so while the president was out of the country visiting France, the VP was acting president and took the opportunity to pardon himself and all the ministers involved in his corruption scandal. The president was not amused upon returning and finding out what had happened.

    It seems to me that the American presidential pardon powers are just dumb, and the nations that have copied them are silly to do so.

    How many of Trump's family and administration will end up being pardoned by Trump or Pence or Ryan? Punishment for crimes is something that applies to only the poor and weak in the US and not the rich and powerful I guess.
    More to the point, why is he interested at this stage in exploring the "pardons" option for his family AND himself? Getting nervous perhaps?
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      More to the point, why is he interested at this stage in exploring the "pardons" option for his family AND himself? Getting nervous perhaps?
      The 'so-called' judges might think he's done something wrong (sad!), and it's all 'fake news' anyway, so a pardon would totally clear up the nothingburger, and let him get back to the business of Making America Great Again continuing to funnel money into his own pocket.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        The 'so-called' judges might think he's done something wrong (sad!), and it's all 'fake news' anyway, so a pardon would totally clear up the nothingburger, and let him get back to the business of Making America Great Again continuing to funnel money into his own pocket.
        Of course the pardons "would totally clear his name". Obviously! Why didn't I think of that?
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • #5
          Another week, another 'anonymous sources' report by Fake News that libtards swallow whole!
          Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            The 'so-called' judges might think he's done something wrong (sad!), and it's all 'fake news' anyway, so a pardon would totally clear up the nothingburger, and let him get back to the business of Making Russia Great Again while continuing to funnel money into his own pocket.
            fify
            Last edited by JimL; 07-21-2017, 07:46 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Obama pardoned the traitor Bradley Manning. Why did you forget that?
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                Obama pardoned the traitor Bradley Manning. Why did you forget that?
                Not until she served 7 years in prison. I think Trump realizes that he and his team are guilty of a lot worse than Chelsea manning ever thought of being. The noose is tightening, and he is beginning to look for his best way out. Perhaps like Ukraine's Yanakovich, he'll flee to exile in Russia.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  Obama pardoned the traitor Bradley Manning. Why did you forget that?
                  Chelsea Manning?

                  And that was a good thing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    ...While Obama used the presidential pardon power slightly more constructively...
                    In other words, "I agree with Obama's pardons".
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Perhaps like Ukraine's Yanakovich, he'll flee to exile in Russia.


                      You have been taking 'sense of humor' pills!
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The pardon of Richard Nixon, while politically unpopular at the time, may well have been the right thing for America in the long run, allowing it to move on. That was a bit of a special case; I'm not extrapolating from that to defend all other political pardons.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          The pardon of Richard Nixon, while politically unpopular at the time, may well have been the right thing for America in the long run, allowing it to move on. That was a bit of a special case; I'm not extrapolating from that to defend all other political pardons.
                          yeah
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            The pardon of Richard Nixon, while politically unpopular at the time, may well have been the right thing for America in the long run, allowing it to move on. That was a bit of a special case; I'm not extrapolating from that to defend all other political pardons.
                            Nixon was actually begged by his staff to pardon them along with himself but he refused to do it believing it to be dishonorable. He also wasn't sure that he could legally pardon himself and that may have had something to do with his refusal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              Chelsea Manning?

                              And that was a good thing.
                              No. Bradley Manning. And no it wasn't. He is a traitor.
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment

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