How I know God is unreal

[SatanTheAlien]

I will present the irrefutable evidence of how I know God is not real, and by God, I mean an eternal being that created the universe. There are other concepts of god(s) that I will not be addressing in this first post.
I am not a troll. I do not say things to anger people. That is not my goal. I only wish to provide the evidence of how I know there is no God.
I think most people find logic hard to follow. First, I must show you something.

Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue.
When it comes to describing an eternal state, it is difficult because language limits us. For this reason, try to focus on the concepts rather than semantics. I will do my best to convey the concepts.
What does it mean that Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue? I am trying to say that Mike is eternally the color blue and no other color but blue. This means that Mike has always been blue. This is the concept I am trying to convey. Assuming this is true, then I will call this eternal state A.

Eternal state A = Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue.
Some might wish to word it differently, like Mike is eternally blue, or Mike is always blue, etc. The concept remains the same. Focus on that. Don’t get side tracked by grammar.
If Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue, Mike can never be red, or green, etc. If eternal state A is true, then the follow statement must be false.
Mike transformed himself into the color red, and is no longer blue. Even if Mike was supernatural, this cannot be true. If Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue, then Mike cannot transform into any other color, no matter what powers Mike possesses. This would be a contradiction. Mike would then exist in a new state, which contradicts eternal state A.
No matter how we try to prance around it, no matter what we say, it remains a FACT that if Mike has always been blue, and no other color but blue, then Mike cannot ever be any other color. That is a FACT. No one can refute that fact. It just is. If contradictions can exist, then anything can be true. Anything. It could be true that God is real now, but will not be real tomorrow. It could be true that heaven exist for you, but not for me, in a real way, meaning that when you die, you go to heaven, but when I die, I become nothing. No hell. Just nothing. It could be true that when a Hindu dies he goes to Nirvana, and true that when you die, you go to heaven or hell, and also true that when a Satanist dies, he gets lots of naked chicks forever.
Do we really want to believe that contradictions can be true?

So what does this have to do with God? The wise ones already figured it out.
If God exist in eternal state A, which will be defined like this: God has always been alone, with nothing else in existence but himself, without a universe in existence, without humans in existence., then it cannot be true that God is existing and the universe is also existing. Eternal state A states that God must be alone, always, forever and ever. It states that God has always been by himself, without a universe in existing, without time as we know it in existence, just like eternal state A said that Mike has always been the color blue and nothing but the color blue.
It then must be a fact that God cannot have created the universe, for by creating the universe God contradicts his own eternal state A, which = God has always been alone, with nothing else in existence but himself, without a universe in existence, without humans in existence.
This means it cannot be true that God and humans both exist, as this violates eternal state A.
Thus, God could not have created the universe if eternal state A is true. No manner of jumping jacks will change this fact. There is nothing we can say to change this fact. God being outside time, transcendent, etc, no amount of supernatural power can change this fact. God could not have created the universe if eternal state A is true.

Is eternal state A true?

[robertb]

There are some logical issues with your construction.

If Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue, Mike can never be red, or green, etc. If eternal state A is true, then the follow statement must be false.

Note bolded.

[SatanTheAlien]

Note, I said don't get caught up in the semantics because grammar cannot deal with eternal states. Deal with the concepts. Read every word I typed. :p

[robertb]

Note, I said don't get caught up in the semantics because grammar cannot deal with eternal states. Deal with the concepts. Read every word I typed. :p

I did.

Consider these two concepts: before, after.

[kuartus4]

Lol!

[Tanakh Keeper]

Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue.
When it comes to describing an eternal state, it is difficult because language limits us. For this reason, try to focus on the concepts rather than semantics. I will do my best to convey the concepts.
What does it mean that Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue? I am trying to say that Mike is eternally the color blue and no other color but blue. This means that Mike has always been blue. This is the concept I am trying to convey. Assuming this is true, then I will call this eternal state A.

Eternal state A = Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue.
If Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue, Mike can never be red, or green, etc. If eternal state A is true, then the follow statement must be false.
Mike transformed himself into the color red, and is no longer blue. Even if Mike was supernatural, this cannot be true. If Mike has always been the color blue, and no other color but blue, then Mike cannot transform into any other color, no matter what powers Mike possesses. This would be a contradiction. Mike would then exist in a new state, which contradicts eternal state A.
No matter how we try to prance around it, no matter what we say, it remains a FACT that if Mike has always been blue, and no other color but blue, then Mike cannot ever be any other color. That is a FACT. No one can refute that fact.

I agree that Mike can only be blue. If Mike can ever be another color, then by definition, Mike can't be eternally blue. However the color of Mike is the only fact that is supported by your example. You can make no other conclusions about Mike, such as Mike's height or weight, let along the existence of beings other than Mike.

So what does this have to do with God? The wise ones already figured it out.

If God exist in eternal state A, which will be defined like this: God has always been alone, with nothing else in existence but himself, without a universe in existence, without humans in existence., then it cannot be true that God is existing and the universe is also existing. Eternal state A states that God must be alone, always, forever and ever. It states that God has always been by himself, without a universe in existing, without time as we know it in existence, just like eternal state A said that Mike has always been the color blue and nothing but the color blue.

This example isn't logically consistent. The FACT is that G-d is eternal. This fact doesn't support a conclusion that no other beings can ever exist. It can only support the conclusion that G-d will always exist.

[Soyeong]

Is eternal state A true?

Nope, at least not when it is granted that "has always been" is grammatically equivalent to "will always be". That was easy.

[37818]

If God exists in eternal state . . .

The God in this statement can be refuted easily. Existence for which God is to exist in as an eternal being is presumed. An eternal existence. No God could have created it. Therefore no God is needed for the eternal existence.

Eternal existence is the only thing which is self-existent, and is not in need of any God to be so.

It is the "if God" in your statment which needs existence. [That is not the God I know, BTW.]

[Dee Dee Warren]

This also very much oversimplifies that concept of time and the various theories about time.

Before the "Big Bang" or whatever started this universe in a naturalist worldview, let's call that state Mike, had always been "not the universe." No amount of jumping jacks will change that. Therefore, the universe can't exist.

[SatanTheAlien]

I agree that Mike can only be blue. If Mike can ever be another color, then by definition, Mike can't be eternally blue. However the color of Mike is the only fact that is supported by your example. You can make no other conclusions about Mike, such as Mike's height or weight, let along the existence of beings other than Mike.



This example isn't logically consistent. The FACT is that G-d is eternal. This fact doesn't support a conclusion that no other beings can ever exist. It can only support the conclusion that G-d will always exist.

Check the argument again. The eternal state A of God = God has always been alone, with nothing else in existence but himself, without a universe in existence, without humans in existence. If this state is true, then God could never create humans. Humans could never exist because if they did, then God wasn't in his eternal state, which was ALONE, with NO humans in existence.

[Dee Dee Warren]

wash rinse and repeat to what I already said

[Doug Shaver]

The wise ones already figured it out.

When I see that in any argument, I know it's a bad argument.

[Doug Shaver]

Note, I said don't get caught up in the semantics

You can say it all you want. Your logic is irrelevant until we get clear on what your words mean.

[Dee Dee Warren]

You can say it all you want. Your logic is irrelevant until we get clear on what your words mean.

What are words for? When no one listens anymore?

You are too old if you know immediately what that is.

[Dee Dee Warren]

When I see that in any argument, I know it's a bad argument.

When I see that kind of statement that he made about the "wise ones", I usually think of this.