Whag's abortion derail from Chick-Fil-A thread

[Teallaura]

Except of course I did not do so.

Except, of course, you did.

If you can persuade the legal system that it's OK, then it's OK.

If legal, okay - and slavery was legal for more than 300 years. According to you, slavery was perfectly okay so long as it was legal.

Really, think before you type.

[phank]

Except, of course, you did. If legal, okay - and slavery was legal for more than 300 years. According to you, slavery was perfectly okay so long as it was legal.

Really, think before you type.

This is not an easy thing to express, perhaps. I'll try one more time. I am a strong believer in due process. This means following the law, the Constitution, the legal precedents, the processes, the guarantees, the protections, and all the procedures involved.

Now, this leads us to a very tough question. WHAT IF full due process results in a set of policies with which one violently disagrees, or finds horrifying or immoral or inhuman or such? Should we say "well, due process has failed, so MY WAY is imposed because I am RIGHT"? We know that part of due process is precedent, and we know there are some precedents in our history we look back on and wonder how that could ever have been allowed. You are female, you can now vote. It seems unimaginable that women NOT be allowed to vote. But it was a very very hard battle to win that right, believe me. So does that mean all the due process that considered womans' suffrage BEFORE it became an amendment, was all wrong?

So we're sort of trapped. If we allow arbitrary power to determine our rights (some sort of enlightened despot), we are not free to determine our destiny EVEN IF the despot is just way kewl. But if we rely on due process, careful deliberation, and social perceptions, what were once considered wrongs are VERY hard to correct, and take a long time to do so. So in respecting due process, I am also respecting the social injustices that due process permitted in the past, and trusting to due process to correct injustices today and in the future. Slowly, and with difficulty.

So I'm not saying slavery was a Good Thing even when it was legal. I'm saying that I fear concentrated power, and feel safer with grinding due process, EVEN IF it can take 300 years to correct an injustice.

[Teallaura]

But abortion is okay because its legal - face it, the contradiction will not fly. Either legality imparts morality - the silliness you actually said earlier - or the 'religious noise' is legitimate protest, your denigration aside.

Incidentally, the concept is nonsense. I was an atheist for ten years and solidified my pro-life stance during that time and there are a number of pro-life atheist organizations. That simply should not be if pro-life is nothing but 'religious noise'.

I'll give you credit for actually catching the problem on slavery. but that tells me to expect a lot better reasoning from you than the drivel you spouted all over this thread earlier.

The nice mods will be splitting this thread any time now - see ya there.

[lilpixieofterror]

There's certainly a contingent of Christians who protest on sidewalks and volunteer at crisis pregnancy centers. They would be in the minority. Greg Cunningham from CBR, arguably the most vocal of all antiabortion groups, has persistently pointed out how pathetic Christian action is relative to the cost (4 million babies a year).

Like I said, the truth hurts. Most here probably dedicate zero time to the cause.

Do you ever get tired of saying something dumb? I actually have, I have also been a sunday school teach, a volunteer to work on people's cars that can afford somebody to work on them, a big sister, and worked in a soup kitchen. Sorry, with those kind of things, I don't have the time to add in 'standing at an abortion clinic' to make Whag happy onto my schedule.

[lilpixieofterror]

You do this a lot, pix.

Awe, Whag feels so smart by pointing out minor errors in grammar. Hey though, you need something to make up for your lack of arguments, eh? It is quite cute that you think standing up for Chick-fil-A = fat Christian or that going to Chick-fil-A = will not stand up for other causes, but do you have any actual evidence for this? Do you ever get tired of looking foolish?

[phank]

If you dismiss legitimate disagreement with you as "drivel", you won't get too much effort to explain anything. Why bother, against such an attitude?

I think you misunderstand what I intend by "religious noise". It's entirely possible (indeed, inevitable) for ANY social issue to divide legitimate opinions concerning such things as social and economic costs, pros and cons of various trade-offs, and the like. I think on the whole, across history, there has been a strong congruence between law and morality. Sharia law basically defines morality, while Western law tends to mirror it.

I don't think it's silly to respect due process of law. The law has never been able to get too far ahead, or fall too far behind, social trends and perceptions. I think where we really differ here is, you seem to think morality is absolute, culturally independent, and timeless. I tend to think morality is fluid, socially intertwined, and resting on consensus (minimizing social conflicts as much as possible).

So when I speak of "religious noise", I'm talking about people who appeal to what they claim is external authority, which always just coincidentally happens to agree with their preferences. And external authority invariably hands down Absolute Morality - and pay no attention to this happening to be these people's personal opinions. I think this is kidding oneself. My opinion may disagree with yours, but I recognize that it IS my opinion, I represent it as such, and I try to defend it as well as I can. I do NOT try to hide behind an unquestionable external authority, and I regard that as cheating.

[Whag]

Do you ever get tired of saying something dumb? I actually have, I have also been a sunday school teach, a volunteer to work on people's cars that can afford somebody to work on them, a big sister, and worked in a soup kitchen. Sorry, with those kind of things, I don't have the time to add in 'standing at an abortion clinic' to make Whag happy onto my schedule.

Many things make me happy. Your intimidation of scared pregnant women wouldn't be one of them. As usual, you've entirely missed the point.

Btw, spelling and grammar matter when you're telling people they're stupid.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I went to several CFAs today hoping to see some protesters to invite to sit down and let me treat them to a meal and have a discussion. There were none. I was interviewed by a news crew who were hanging around disappointed that there wasn't any controversy. What they did get is interviews with people like me who said that they wanted to come show some Christian charity to any protesters and some other who were peaceably expressing their support.

That isn't news. It didn't make the cut. I am sure though if I said I was "agin the queers and hoped they burnt in hell" I would have been all over the news. But alas, the reality doesn't make it.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Many things make me happy. Your intimidation of scared pregnant women wouldn't be one of them. As usual, you've entirely missed the point.

As a female who has had two abortions, you have your head up your rear. It probably feels at home there.

Btw, spelling and grammar matter when you're telling people they're stupid.

No it doesn't. Spelling and grammar do not have a direct correlation to intelligence. Ignorance of rules of English perhaps, but some of the most idiotic people I know are decent with both grammar and spelling and even know some big words. "BTW" people who are really savvy on grammar and spelling cringe at informal little abbreviations such as that. Perhaps THAT matters when you are criticizing someone else's bad spelling and grammar.

Please prove the logic of your statement which would only hold true if it is prima facie proof that someone with bad grammar and spelling is stupid, and therefore, shouldn't be telling anyone else they are stupid.

Here is a hint. That was a stupid comment for you to make. And I am adept at spelling and grammar. I know where to put the semi-colons and know the differences among a hyphen, en-dash, and em-dash. I read style guides for fun. Which proves nothing. I could still be dumb as a rock.

[lilpixieofterror]

Many things make me happy.

Yeah, such as saying the most vacuous comments you can come up with seems to be rather common with your MO.

Your intimidation of scared pregnant women wouldn't be one of them.

Assumes that protest of abortion = abusing scared pregnant women. This tells me you've never been to one or have talked with those that have. More often then not, I have not seen a single act of violence or abusing going on, but hey... making false accusations against people is far easier then actually giving facts, eh? I'm sorry dear, but you would never see me trying to intimidate anybody who is pregnant, despite what you believe, I am actually a very good counselor and will always listen to what anybody has to say. I just have zero respect for trolls, like you, that make it their mission in life to be arrogant jack asses to people they disagree with (IE Christians). Call it an INFJ thing, if you will.

As usual, you've entirely missed the point.

I hit it directly on the nose, you're just too busy making up stereotypes and bad mouthing people you dislike (IE those evil Christians) to care about truth. You get all the ridicule you deserve Whag.

Btw, spelling and grammar matter when you're telling people they're stupid.

When you can show me an article that says that spelling/grammar = intelligence, I will take your word for it. Until then, it is the sign of a desperate person, that can't address points and needs something, anything to hold onto their fragile ego and smug superiority complex with (I'll give you a hit though, what do you think might cause a person to mix up letters or words?).

[lilpixieofterror]

No it doesn't. Spelling and grammar do not have a direct correlation to intelligence. Ignorance of rules of English perhaps, but some of the most idiotic people I know are decent with both grammar and spelling and even know some big words. "BTW" people who are really savvy on grammar and spelling cringe at informal little abbreviations such as that. Perhaps THAT matters when you are criticizing someone else's bad spelling and grammar.

Please prove the logic of your statement which would only hold true if it is prima facie proof that someone with bad grammar and spelling is stupid, and therefore, shouldn't be telling anyone else they are stupid.

Here is a hint. That was a stupid comment for you to make. And I am adept at spelling and grammar. I know where to put the semi-colons and know the differences among a hyphen, en-dash, and em-dash. I read style guides for fun. Which proves nothing. I could still be dumb as a rock.

Plus, to be honest, I mix up letters and words all the time and don't even notice it because I automatically fill in the blanks in my head because I skip over small and/or unimportant words.

[KingsGambit]

And if I can butt in again, this projection seems little different from the common accusation (I see it all the time because I have some friends who are into liberal activism who love to post their blogs on Facebook) that all conservatives want to see women barefoot and in the kitchen.

[Whag]

As a female who has had two abortions, you have your head up your rear. It probably feels at home there.

Sounds like you had *your* head up your rear.

No it doesn't. Spelling and grammar do not have a direct correlation to intelligence. Ignorance of rules of English perhaps, but some of the most idiotic people I know are decent with both grammar and spelling and even know some big words. "BTW" people who are really savvy on grammar and spelling cringe at informal little abbreviations such as that. Perhaps THAT matters when you are criticizing someone else's bad spelling and grammar.

Please prove the logic of your statement which would only hold true if it is prima facie proof that someone with bad grammar and spelling is stupid, and therefore, shouldn't be telling anyone else they are stupid.

Here is a hint. That was a stupid comment for you to make. And I am adept at spelling and grammar. I know where to put the semi-colons and know the differences among a hyphen, en-dash, and em-dash. I read style guides for fun. Which proves nothing. I could still be dumb as a rock.

I didn't call her stupid, • Edited by a Moderator •. I said "you do that a lot, pix" and then I said when insulting someone for stupidity, check your verb/subject agreement (in so many words).

And get off your high horse on the abortion thing. It's Christians who often exacerbate the mess by being completely irrational and even downright misogynistic. Mother Theresa spent much energy trying to keep contraception from women.

King's Gambit, it's is largely true that barefoot/pregnant thing is something that many conservatives, though not all, want. It's a legit threat in the Philippines. I'd rather have a pregnancy prevented than have a kid grow up in poverty or be sold into child prostitution in southeast asia. Wouldn't you?

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[Cow Poke]

I think I'm going to have the Grilled Chicken Club at Chick-Fil-A today, along with a bowl of fruit.

[Sparko]

Sounds like you had *your* head up your rear.





I didn't call her stupid, • Edited by a Moderator •. I said "you do that a lot, pix" and then I said when insulting someone for stupidity, check your verb/subject agreement (in so many words).

And get off your high horse on the abortion thing. It's Christians who often exacerbate the mess by being completely irrational and even downright misogynistic. Mother Theresa spent much energy trying to keep contraception from women.

King's Gambit, it's is largely true that barefoot/pregnant thing is something that many conservatives, though not all, want. It's a legit threat in the Philippines. I'd rather have a pregnancy prevented than have a kid grow up in poverty or be sold into child prostitution in southeast asia. Wouldn't you?

Now THAT is a good troll, Whag. Insult the owner, make completely misleading statements about the topic, and then make an outrageous claim to finish it off. Congratulations.