Clement and passions of the soul

[KingsGambit]

I have been looking at Clement's "Who is the Rich Man Who Shall Be Saved"? He talks about how we must get rid of anything that contributes to "passions of the soul". Contextually, I'm having a hard time figuring out what that means. Does it mean things that contribute to sinful desires? I sort of get that impression by him linking it with arrogance, etc. Or does it mean that I need to get rid of anything that is part of a personal hobby (i.e. my hobby is playing chess, so would I need to get rid of my chess board?)

Edit: From reading further, it seems that the one scholarly interpretation I've found agrees that it refers to sinful passions. And that makes sense. If our hearts are where our money is, spending it on sinful things is especially out of line.

[RBerman]

Sounds like you answered your question! Glad we could be with you to share your victory.

[Rdr. Arsenios]

I have been looking at Clement's "Who is the Rich Man Who Shall Be Saved"? He talks about how we must get rid of anything that contributes to "passions of the soul". Contextually, I'm having a hard time figuring out what that means. Does it mean things that contribute to sinful desires? I sort of get that impression by him linking it with arrogance, etc. Or does it mean that I need to get rid of anything that is part of a personal hobby (i.e. my hobby is playing chess, so would I need to get rid of my chess board?)

Edit: From reading further, it seems that the one scholarly interpretation I've found agrees that it refers to sinful passions. And that makes sense. If our hearts are where our money is, spending it on sinful things is especially out of line.

What constitutes the "Rich Man", of course, is his wealth, but the Fathers take this parable a lot farther, because one's wealth is called one's "ousia", and this, as we know, is one's "essence", so that in whatever it is that one has that comprises his riches, which in the world DEFINE who he is, must do, as the Rich Man who did not help Lazarus did not, and which the rich young man who asked Christ's advise in fact did do, is SELL ALL, and give to the poor, so as to have riches in heaven... And only THEN can one follow Christ unto perfection/maturity... Following Christ is more than being a good guy and not hurting anyone, but is radical self-sacrifice... And in order to DO radical sacrifice of SELF, one must take on a battle against one's SELF... And if that means you are addicted to video games, then the video games have to go... And on and on...

Most of us have a lot of IDEAS that we THINK define WHO we are, and for these, some have no money or property, but tend to despise those who do... So that they must, in order to repent from their wealth of judging the rich, repent and honor them in their wealth... And love them...

The story of the great Byzantine chanter becoming a monk comes from the Fathers, for he was told by the Abbot to tell no one he could sing, and to sing wrong notes when asked, and to sound bad, which he did until the last week of his life... The monks there all abused him for his terrible participation in the singing of the Church [all services are sung], and he was made an object of ridicule and scorn... At the end, the Abbot permitted him to sing the evening service, to the edification of all... Self-denial has many dimensions...

Arsenios

[KingsGambit]

I believe I have read this as recommended somewhere, but a test I have heard recommended along these lines is "if this were taken away from me, would I still be content in Christ?" At some points in my youth, before I matured and really made my faith my own, I could not have said that, but at this point in time, I know I would be willing to alienate myself from anything else if need be. Another test that comes to mind, and I think this was alluded to in your post, is what one's ultimate identity as a person is. For a Christian, there can of course be only one answer...

It's interesting that you used the example of video games. I have no interest in them myself, but I came across a news article yesterday about how some people in South Korea play them 18 hours a game in the hopes of making money and fame off of playing them there. That would clearly be an excess. I don't, however, agree with the notion that anything that is pleasurable must be cut off (Colossians 2:21), but that would of course be an extreme application in any case.

I ultimately view self sacrifice as necessary for the crucifixion of the sinful nature and not simply for its own sake. Excesses that take the place of godliness in one's life come to mind. Perhaps pride was what had to be put away in the case of the musician alluded to previously, because in other cases, one's musical abilities could be use to further the cause of the church or in worship.

[The Remonstrant]

I ultimately view self sacrifice as necessary for the crucifixion of the sinful nature and not simply for its own sake. Excesses that take the place of godliness in one's life come to mind. Perhaps pride was what had to be put away in the case of the musician alluded to previously, because in other cases, one's musical abilities could be use to further the cause of the church or in worship.

Besides my quibble with your employment of "sinful nature" (preferring the plain yet rich Pauline designation of "flesh" instead), I'm in essential agreement with your comments above (message #04).

Me & My Tele

Regarding excess and video games and such (as Mr. Blaisdell insightfully made mention of), over a week ago I literally smashed my television console as it was absorbing far too much of my time. It's amazing how easy it is to thoughtlessly stare into the tube for numerous hours unaccounted. The mind-numbing effect is truly astounding! I knew of no other to deal with it aside from literally destroying it. Ironically, it's quite easy for me to do without the tele. It's just when I had it, more and more time magically got whisked away. As I really don't miss it, throwing it out didn't constitute much of a sacrifice. I urge any and all of you: If you're glued to the TV or your cell phone or your computer or whatever, drastic action may need to be taken. It's absolutely ridiculous how we worship all these electronic devices.