We Want a Church Service, But We Don't Really Believe In God

[Pilgrim]

So a family who had connections back in the '60's to the congregation i serve now wants to have a memorial service here at the church with me officiating. None of them have been associated with the church for more than 30 years having moved across the country to various places. One brother stayed in the area but never returned to church. He is the deceased.

They asked to have the service here. I agreed before getting all the details. According to the Widow, who is nominally but not practicing Jewish, the deceased was closer to Buddhism than anything else. (though of course most western ideas of what Buddhism actually is are sorely lacking) So she asks if I could use more ecumenical language. I say yes, but this is a church you're asking to hold the service in. Scripture must be read and reflected upon. It's a basic rule. Ok, she says, but do we have to have the cross up there...Yes I reply and explain why and how she might view it with less antagonism and more hope. She says that in her Buddhist friend's temple they have symbols from all religions and they're ok with it, why do we have a problem with it. Oye.

I hope in all of this that this is a point of invitation to the gospel for them though I don't hold out much hope. Why is it that people for whom religion is a distraction, a sort of vague past time like wine tasting or photography and is colored by pseudo intellectual musings seem to think their vague interest in "spirituality" is somehow more definitive or authoritative than that of those for whom it is a full time calling and field of professional study and work? I mean, would you go into your doctors office and tell him to lay off the thermometer or stethoscope? I don't think so.

Anyway, just venting.

[Raphael]

So long as you don't do what happened at a friend's father's funeral.

The minister said "Although he wasn't close to God we know now that he is safe in heaven with our Lord"

He wasn't just not "close to God" he was an atheist and quite assertive about it.

That was over 10 years ago and it still irks me.

[Cow Poke]

That's a tough one, Pilgrim.

I've had some similar (though not quite that "far out") situations, in which I have to weigh "an opportunity to present the Gospel to people who might not otherwise be open to it" with "are they just looking for a venue and a 'feel good' place to congregate"?

It's never been a hard and fast rule, but generally, when asked to conduct a funeral or memorial service in my Church, I specifically reserve the right to exercise my responsibility as a minister of the Gospel with total freedom to speak "as the Lord leads". Sometimes, that has resulted in the family seeking a different venue.

It's a tough issue.

[Jedidiah]

But, you gotta do what is right.

[Cow Poke]

Yup. And accept the consequences.

[Manwë Súlimo]

"I like Christianity except for its doctrines."

[Whag]

That's a tough one, Pilgrim.

I've had some similar (though not quite that "far out") situations, in which I have to weigh "an opportunity to present the Gospel to people who might not otherwise be open to it" with "are they just looking for a venue and a 'feel good' place to congregate"?

It's never been a hard and fast rule, but generally, when asked to conduct a funeral or memorial service in my Church, I specifically reserve the right to exercise my responsibility as a minister of the Gospel with total freedom to speak "as the Lord leads". Sometimes, that has resulted in the family seeking a different venue.

It's a tough issue.

What does it mean to "speak as the Lord leads"?

[Moksha]

So why do they want the service in the Church? Are they just asking you because they want a venue and an MC?

[Carrikature]

So why do they want the service in the Church? Are they just asking you because they want a venue and an MC?

I'd guess 'tradition', but that's me making up something on little facts.

Sounds like an annoying issue, though.

[Pilgrim]

So why do they want the service in the Church? Are they just asking you because they want a venue and an MC?

What happened was the brother of the deceased remembered being at the church as a child and is still nominally a church goer. He sort of got the idea through the widow who was still grieving and might have had other ideas had she been a better emotional place. But maybe all of this is God working circumstance out so something powerful can happen. That's what I pray for.

[Cow Poke]

What happened was the brother of the deceased remembered being at the church as a child and is still nominally a church goer. He sort of got the idea through the widow who was still grieving and might have had other ideas had she been a better emotional place. But maybe all of this is God working circumstance out so something powerful can happen. That's what I pray for.

I'll join you in prayer on this -- that God will give you wisdom, and guide you, and have His way.

[Tanakh Keeper]

So a family who had connections back in the '60's to the congregation i serve now wants to have a memorial service here at the church with me officiating.

You are right to be upset. It is one thing to borrow your building for their own service. It is quite another to ask you to officiate the service, but not to officiate it with your style and practices.

I've experienced both Christians in my synagogue and attending Jewish services in a church. Both times just to borrow the space. When Christians come here, we erect a barrier to cover up the ark. And when we've gone to a church, they've covered up the cross. And we each have our own religious leader leading our services. But I think it is unreasonable to go to someone else's building and expect the religious leader at that building to lead a completely different service than they normally would.

[NormATive]

I agreed before getting all the details.

Maybe, just maybe; she thought (wrongly, apparently) that a minister of a church would have some compassion and understanding.

Anyway, just venting.

Then, you shouldn't make promises you can't keep.

NORM

[showmeproof]

What happened was the brother of the deceased remembered being at the church as a child and is still nominally a church goer. He sort of got the idea through the widow who was still grieving and might have had other ideas had she been a better emotional place. But maybe all of this is God working circumstance out so something powerful can happen. That's what I pray for.

You really show such compassion. That must be your 'gift'.

Let them find comfort in this time of great stress and it will benefit your cause more than 'sticking to your guns.' Earlier this year, the woman who raised me passed. The church she was baptized in wouldn't officiate because she had ceased being a member years ago. She had been a believer, but what mattered at this particular junction was whether or not she was a member. So we turned to my wife's church and they know that I'm an atheist so they make me and my siblings sit down to see it will be a "right fit." They too were worried that we were just looking for a venue, when in fact we were trying to give her the Christian service that she would have wanted.

In this case, the deceased doesn't appear to be Christian. Which is a bit different. However, the individual who you deride as a nominal church goer and appears to be the one charged with making arrangements on behalf of the widow, is every bit entitled to the services of the church. This isn't about just the deceased, or about the widow, it is about everybody involved. Don't presume to tell me that you know the hearts of each individual. Shut-up and do your job and let your Holy Spirit do his or her or its part.

[KingsGambit]

You really show such compassion.

If Christianity is true, there is nothing compassionate about temporarily pretending otherwise.