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Commentary Thread: Is the Bible Inspired by God

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    You saying above "it has a numerical error creep in after centuries of being passed down" is an admission that the Bible is not inspired.
    No, it's not. I don't share your view of inspiration. Are you going to admit the Quran is not inspired since it doesn't pass your own test?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
      No, it's not. I don't share your view of inspiration. Are you going to admit the Quran is not inspired since it doesn't pass your own test?

      You admitting that the Bible has error means that the Bible is not inspired as God cannot inspire false information.

      I am happy to examine the Quran in this regrad in a separate debate.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
        You admitting that the Bible has error means that the Bible is not inspired as God cannot inspire false information.

        I am happy to examine the Quran in this regrad in a separate debate.
        But I never said God inspired error. I said copyists centuries later made mistakes. They are not the same thing at all.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
          37818, my offer is clear that the Bible is not the word of God in light of the following contradiction in the Bible; 2 Kings 8:26 says "Ahzaiah was 22 when he began to rule" while 2 Chronicles 22:2 says ""Ahzaiah was 42 when he began to rule". I am sure this is not what God inspired because 42 and 22 are not same unless the reader is crazy.
          Really? This known variant has already been addressed.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
            Really? This known variant has already been addressed.
            This contradiction (between 2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2) proves that the Bible is not inspired.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
              This contradiction (between 2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2) proves that the Bible is not inspired.
              How does that copyest error prove the original was in error?
              Last edited by 37818; 06-12-2018, 03:58 PM.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                How does that copyest error prove the original was in error?
                Saying such contradiction (between 2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2) is the result of copyist error lacks evidence due to the two established facts that (1) the original manuscripts are not available and (2) not two of the available copies of copies of the Bible are identical.

                The facts remains that such contradiction (between 2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2) proves that the Bible today is not inspired fully by God.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                  Saying such contradiction (between 2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2) is the result of copyist error lacks evidence due to the two established facts that (1) the original manuscripts are not available and (2) not two of the available copies of copies of the Bible are identical.
                  Three facts: 1) Copies come from originals. 2) Copies are not the originals. 3) Your argument does not establish the errors in the copies that they had occurred in the originals.

                  The facts remains that such contradiction (between 2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2) proves that the Bible today is not inspired fully by God.
                  The errors are not from God. The errors are in the copies. Does not prove the originals are not from God.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    You saying "Three facts: 1) Copies come from originals" is not a fact because the originals are lost.

                    Another contradition of doctrinal nature is found between Matthew 5:8 (pure hearted will see God) and 1 Timothy 6:16 (no one can see God).

                    Matthew 5:8 says "blessed those who are pure in heart for they shall God" ; however, " no one can see God"

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      You saying "Three facts: 1) Copies come from originals" is not a fact because the originals are lost.

                      Another contradition of doctrinal nature is found between Matthew 5:8 (pure hearted will see God) and 1 Timothy 6:16 (no one can see God).

                      Matthew 5:8 says "blessed those who are pure in heart for they shall see God" ; however, " no one can see God"

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                        You saying "Three facts: 1) Copies come from originals" is not a fact because the originals are lost.

                        Another contradition of doctrinal nature is found between Matthew 5:8 (pure hearted will see God) and 1 Timothy 6:16 (no one can see God).

                        Matthew 5:8 says "blessed those who are pure in heart for they shall God" ; however, " no one can see God"
                        You have an original document.

                        Original document > copy > copy from copy > copy from copy > > > [original long gone] copy from copy . . . many many copies.

                        Those many copies came from an original.

                        Now seeing the invisible. When what is actually invisible is seen in some way, what is actually invisible remans actually invisible. Space, like God is invisible. And like God is omnipresent. Can you see space? Did not the invisible God make Himself visible to the prophet Moses as a flame in a burning bush?
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          1. It is a claim that "Those many copies came from an original" because these originals are lost so your claim cannot be proven true.

                          2. Not two of these copies are identical. The earlier the copies, the greater the differences.

                          3. "Did not the invisible God make Himself visible to the prophet Moses as a flame in a burning bush?" is yes but;

                          A) Matthew 5:8 says specifically "pure hearted peaople WILL SEE GOD" whereas 1 Timothy 6:16 says "one CANNOT SEE GOD"

                          B) In both of these verses, the word "see" is used only. No use of the word "appear" in these verses.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                            1. It is a claim that "Those many copies came from an original" because these originals are lost so your claim cannot be proven true.
                            So you think. The Quran never had an original written document.
                            2. Not two of these copies are identical. The earlier the copies, the greater the differences.
                            You got this wrong too.
                            3. "Did not the invisible God make Himself visible to the prophet Moses as a flame in a burning bush?" is yes but;

                            A) Matthew 5:8 says specifically "pure hearted peaople WILL SEE GOD" whereas 1 Timothy 6:16 says "one CANNOT SEE GOD"

                            B) In both of these verses, the word "see" is used only. No use of the word "appear" in these verses.
                            A number of issues here. For one thing, one cannot see what does not appear. And secondly, it says the "pure in heart." For which no one would see God. (Jeremiah 17:9.)

                            So how does one become holy before God? (Hebrews 12:14.)
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              So you think. The Quran never had an original written document.
                              You got this wrong too.
                              A number of issues here. For one thing, one cannot see what does not appear. And secondly, it says the "pure in heart." For which no one would see God. (Jeremiah 17:9.)

                              So how does one become holy before God? (Hebrews 12:14.)
                              Please let me correct you;

                              1. On the Quran, I am happy to debate you on the Quran. But i am here only to discuss the Bible.

                              2. It is true that the earlier the manuscripts the greater the differences.

                              Also, the greater the number of manuscripts copies, the more differences we have. To this effect, "the multiplicity of manuscripts produces a corresponding number of variant readings, for the more manuscripts that are copied the greater will be the number of copyists' errors.

                              It goes on to say "The gross number of variants increases with every new manuscript discovery"

                              Finally it says " To date there are over 200,000 known variants and this figure will no doubt increase in the future as more manuscripts are discovered"

                              The quotes are from "A General Introduction to the Bible by Geisler and Nix"

                              3. On the contradition between Matthew 5:8 and 1 Timothy 6:16, saying "one cannot see what does not appear. And secondly, it says the "pure in heart". For which no one would see God. (Jeremiah 17:9.)" still does NOT solve the contradition because those with pure heart will SEE GOD ,but 1 Timothy 6:16 says "one CANNOT SEE God." Please the phrase " cannot see" means it is not possible to see God.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                                Please let me correct you;

                                1. On the Quran, I am happy to debate you on the Quran. But i am here only to discuss the Bible.
                                Ok.
                                2. It is true that the earlier the manuscripts the greater the differences.
                                The earlier surviving manuscripts have more known errors. They were not very good copies so they were not used and so became forgotten and so much later became discovered. Note the age of oldest manuscripts and when they were found. And note the time span between there dating and discovery.

                                Also, the greater the number of manuscripts copies, the more differences we have. To this effect, "the multiplicity of manuscripts produces a corresponding number of variant readings, for the more manuscripts that are copied the greater will be the number of copyists' errors.
                                Actually the great number of manuscripts agree well among themselves. And the original readings are confirmed by the many manuscripts across manuscript families or types.

                                It goes on to say "The gross number of variants increases with every new manuscript discovery"
                                Not the case. It is the oldest manuscripts that have more errors.
                                Finally it says " To date there are over 200,000 known variants and this figure will no doubt increase in the future as more manuscripts are discovered"
                                It is by the shear number of manuscripts we confirm the original readings.
                                The quotes are from "A General Introduction to the Bible by Geisler and Nix"
                                Good.
                                3. On the contradition between Matthew 5:8 and 1 Timothy 6:16, saying "one cannot see what does not appear. And secondly, it says the "pure in heart". For which no one would see God. (Jeremiah 17:9.)" still does NOT solve the contradition because those with pure heart will SEE GOD ,but 1 Timothy 6:16 says "one CANNOT SEE God." Please the phrase " cannot see" means it is not possible to see God.
                                God is invisible. God is seen through His mediator. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared [Him]." -- John 1:18. ". . . he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; . . ." -- the Prophet Jesus, John 14:9.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                                Comment

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