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Commentary Thread: Is the Bible Inspired by God

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  • #61
    37818 claiming "Does not prove the original had the error" is an assumption because we do not have the originals as these originals are lost.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
      37818 claiming "Does not prove the original had the error" is an assumption because we do not have the originals as these originals are lost.
      We have copies of the originals.

      AND, Islam does not have the original Qur'an either. All variants were destroyed by Ultman and a standard copy was made.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
        We have copies of the originals.

        AND, Islam does not have the original Qur'an either. All variants were destroyed by Ultman and a standard copy was made.
        Actually it is worst than that, The original Qur'an as claimed was an oral revelation, it was only written upon its recitations after the initial claimed revelations. Not at the act the claimed revelation. The Arabic for the current copies of the Arabic Qur'an was put together in 1924 and revised in 1926 etc. There are no single copy of the Arabic Qur'an prior to 1924 that is identical to it.
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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        • #64
          Christian3 saying "We have copies of the originals" is without basis. In his work, The Encyclopedia of Biblical Difficulties, professor Gleason Archer of Evangelical Divinity School admits that "we must deal with the very real problem of the complete disappearance of the autographa (the originals)"

          I am not commenting on any book except the Bible as this thread is about the debate of the inspiration of the Bible.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
            Christian3 saying "We have copies of the originals" is without basis. In his work, The Encyclopedia of Biblical Difficulties, professor Gleason Archer of Evangelical Divinity School admits that "we must deal with the very real problem of the complete disappearance of the autographa (the originals)"
            What are the copies from? Are you not making some type of claim that the autographs of said copies had said errors?

            I am asking you, how do you know any said error is from the source autograph and not an error do to the copyist?
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #66
              37818 asked "What are the copies from? Are you not making some type of claim that the autographs of said copies had said errors?"

              Answer: I was not debating the preservation of the Bible. In this regard, there is one fact undisputed that we do not have the originals. I only assert one thing that the Bible has contradictions. For example, 2 Kings 8:26 says "Ahazaiah was 22 when he began to rule" whereas 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Ahazaiah was 42 when he began to rule"

              In any language in the word, 42 and 22 are not same.

              37818 asked "I am asking you, how do you know any said error is from the source autograph and not an error do to the copyist?"

              I am not commenting on the preservation of the Bible because this thread is about commenting on the debate of the inspiration of the Bible.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                37818 asked "What are the copies from? Are you not making some type of claim that the autographs of said copies had said errors?"

                Answer: I was not debating the preservation of the Bible. In this regard, there is one fact undisputed that we do not have the originals. I only assert one thing that the Bible has contradictions. For example, 2 Kings 8:26 says "Ahazaiah was 22 when he began to rule" whereas 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Ahazaiah was 42 when he began to rule"

                In any language in the word, 42 and 22 are not same.

                37818 asked "I am asking you, how do you know any said error is from the source autograph and not an error do to the copyist?"

                I am not commenting on the preservation of the Bible because this thread is about commenting on the debate of the inspiration of the Bible.
                The two topics are linked, if it wasn't preserved properly, then you can't say the originals were in error. If you tried to apply the same standard to the Quran that you are the Biblical works, then you would have to give the Quran an even worse score with regards to inspiration.

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                • #68
                  There is a topic called, "Biblical Errancy."

                  It has three components:
                  1. The reader of the text.
                  2. The translation of the text.
                  3. Known copyist errors.

                  So what inerrancy is not:
                  1. The reader.
                  2. The translation.
                  3. The copyist.

                  Biblical inerrancy has always been that God is inerrant. So God as His word was given to the human writers is inerrant. The autographs. Of which we only have copies from.

                  There is God's Holy Spirit which He has placed in His followers through faith in His grace, in His Christ.
                  Last edited by 37818; 02-27-2018, 08:36 AM.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    37818, my offer is clear that the Bible is not the word of God in light of the following contradiction in the Bible; 2 Kings 8:26 says "Ahzaiah was 22 when he began to rule" while 2 Chronicles 22:2 says ""Ahzaiah was 42 when he began to rule". I am sure this is not what God inspired because 42 and 22 are not same unless the reader is crazy.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                      37818, my offer is clear that the Bible is not the word of God in light of the following contradiction in the Bible; 2 Kings 8:26 says "Ahzaiah was 22 when he began to rule" while 2 Chronicles 22:2 says ""Ahzaiah was 42 when he began to rule". I am sure this is not what God inspired because 42 and 22 are not same unless the reader is crazy.
                      Commanding evil, and not commanding evil are the opposite, yet the Quran ascribes both to Allah.

                      And when We desire to destroy a city, WE COMMAND its men who live at ease, AND THEY COMMIT UNGODLINESS therein, then the Word is realized against it, and We destroy it utterly. S. 17:16

                      Surely God bids to justice and good-doing and giving to kinsmen; and He forbids indecency, dishonour, and insolence, admonishing you, so that haply you will remember. S. 16:90

                      And whenever they commit an indecency they say, 'We found our fathers practising it, and God has commanded us to do it.' Say: 'God does not command indecency; what, do you say concerning God such things as you know not?' S. 7:28

                      Both A, and not A are logically contradictory. Having such in the Quran is worse than having a numerical error creep in by copyist error.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        Commanding evil, and not commanding evil are the opposite, yet the Quran ascribes both to Allah.

                        And when We desire to destroy a city, WE COMMAND its men who live at ease, AND THEY COMMIT UNGODLINESS therein, then the Word is realized against it, and We destroy it utterly. S. 17:16

                        Surely God bids to justice and good-doing and giving to kinsmen; and He forbids indecency, dishonour, and insolence, admonishing you, so that haply you will remember. S. 16:90

                        And whenever they commit an indecency they say, 'We found our fathers practising it, and God has commanded us to do it.' Say: 'God does not command indecency; what, do you say concerning God such things as you know not?' S. 7:28

                        Both A, and not A are logically contradictory. Having such in the Quran is worse than having a numerical error creep in by copyist error.

                        The debate is about the inspiration of the Bible (not the Quran).
                        Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-09-2018, 01:56 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                          The debate is about the inspiration of the Bible (not the Quran).
                          This is the commentary thread, and not the debate proper. If you are going to say the Bible is not the word of God because it has a numerical error creep in after centuries of being passed down, then you have to deny the inspiration of the Quran since it has logical contradictions in it.

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                          • #73
                            Thanks Cerebrum123 for admitting that the Bible is not inspired because it has error by saying " it has a numerical error creep in after centuries of being passed down"

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                              Thanks Cerebrum123 for admitting that the Bible is not inspired because it has error by saying " it has a numerical error creep in after centuries of being passed down"
                              I didn't "admit that the Bible is not inspired". Are you going to admit that the Quran is not inspired since it has logical contradictions in it?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                                I didn't "admit that the Bible is not inspired". Are you going to admit that the Quran is not inspired since it has logical contradictions in it?

                                You saying above "it has a numerical error creep in after centuries of being passed down" is an admission that the Bible is not inspired.

                                Comment

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