Commentary Thread: Is the Bible Inspired by God

[37818]

Interesting: even the "Answers in Genesis" site doesn't make any assertions about this one. https://answersingenesis.org/bible-t...-ages-at-once/

What follows cannot both be true with both "twenty two years" and "forty two years."

2 Kings 8:26,
. . . old [was] Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. . . .

2 Chronicles 22:2,
. . . old [was] Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. . . .

[Roy]

The reading forty-two in Hebrew of 2 Chronicles 22:2 is the reading which was the corrupted text.

God has preserved the whole of His word.

That's obviously not true, since (as you've just admitted) 2 Chr 22 hasn't been preserved.

If the text hadn't been duplicated in 2K, we might never know that the '42' was wrong. So how many other corrupted texts might there be? How many other mistranscribed numbers have become fixed? You can't be sure.

To deny what God has preserved in the written copies is to deny God and His word.

So by admitting that 2 Chr 22 became corrupted, you've just denied your god.

[37818]

That's obviously not true, since (as you've just admitted) 2 Chr 22 hasn't been preserved.

I admitted no such thing. It is preserved. The fact that other ancient translations and Darby translation, NIV and NASB translate 2 Chronicles 22:2 to read "twenty two."

If the text hadn't been duplicated in 2K, we might never know that the '42' was wrong. So how many other corrupted texts might there be? How many other mistranscribed numbers have become fixed? You can't be sure.So by admitting that 2 Chr 22 became corrupted, you've just denied your god.

Not at all (Proverbs 30:5-6). That variant for one has been know of centuries. And such known textual corruptions are not uncommon.

[Same Hakeem]

1) 31787 writing "So are you saying because the copies contain the error that its original was not the God-breathed text?" needs to be clarified; saying there is a copyist error to solve the contradictions , for example, between 2 Chronicles 22:2 and 2 kings 8:26 is just unsupported claim because we donot have access to the original manuscripts of the Bible in particular Kings and Chronicles in order to verify such claim.

2 ) I wrote that as I said, we are not debating the reasons behind these contradictions originated.

The answer to your question "Where?" is in my statement found in the debate some which I quoted below for your east reference;

" However, the fact is that contradictions, flaws and errors exist in the Bible."

So we are debating if the Bible is inspired by God and if it was preserved.

As I said, a book of God cannot have contradictions in. How these contradictions got in the Bible is not our debate.

[Same Hakeem]

The following statement was in the previous above post and it should read as follows (in capital letters);

"So we are debating if the Bible is inspired by God and NOT if it was preserved."

[Same Hakeem]

The answer to Sparko's question "uh. I thought the Muslims accepted the Old Testament as scripture? If so, didn't Hakeem just call his own religion liars for doing so?" is that the Quran commands muslims to believe in the Torah of Moses, the Gospel of Jesus and the Psalms of David. However, Christian Bibles Scholars agree that the Torah we have in the Bible today was not written by Moses as illustrated by Deuteronomy 34 tells us how old was Moses when he died (verse 7) and where he was buried (verses 5 & 6). Such Torah cannot be of Moses. This is only one example.

Cerebrum123 saying "The Koran commands them to accept it as the inspired words of Allah, but generally Muslims today think it's been "corrupted"" needs to be clarified that Muslims think certain parts are not from God according to the Bible. For example, a flat out contradiction is that according to 2 Kings 8:27 says "Ahaziah was 22 when he began to reign" while 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Ahaziah was 42 when he began to reign"

[Cerebrum123]

The answer to Sparko's question "uh. I thought the Muslims accepted the Old Testament as scripture? If so, didn't Hakeem just call his own religion liars for doing so?" is that the Quran commands muslims to believe in the Torah of Moses, the Gospel of Jesus and the Psalms of David. However, Christian Bibles Scholars agree that the Torah we have in the Bible today was not written by Moses as illustrated by Deuteronomy 34 tells us how old was Moses when he died (verse 7) and where he was buried (verses 5 & 6). Such Torah cannot be of Moses. This is only one example.

Cerebrum123 saying "The Koran commands them to accept it as the inspired words of Allah, but generally Muslims today think it's been "corrupted"" needs to be clarified that Muslims think certain parts are not from God according to the Bible. For example, a flat out contradiction is that according to 2 Kings 8:27 says "Ahaziah was 22 when he began to reign" while 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Ahaziah was 42 when he began to reign"

Yeah, you just sank the Quran's own credibility if you insist on such extreme levels of textual preservation. Also, the works Mohammed himself would have been dealing with would have had the same verses, with the same copyist errors. The Quran still confirmed the Old Testament, and New Testament during Mohammed's time was the "word of Allah", and the Quran says that the words of Allah can't be changed. So even if the Bible was false, the Quran is false since it claims that the Torah and Injil are the inspired, preserved, and authoritative, words of Allah.

[Same Hakeem]

Cerebrum123 claiming "The Quran still confirmed the Old Testament, and New Testament during Mohammed's time was the "word of Allah"" is not found in the Quran and I challenge you to quote one verse from the Quran to shown the Quran confirms the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Which old testament are you referring to please? The Protestant Old Testament has 39 books while the Catholic Old Testament has 46 books in them. There is corruption regardless of the reason of the corruption.

This debate is not about the preservation of the Bible. It is rather about if the Bible inspired by God

[Same Hakeem]

Another flat out contradiction is that According to Exodus 24:9-10, Moses and others SAW ; however, 1 Timothy 6:16 says "whom no man has seen God NOR CAN see him"

Exodus 24:9-11 say "Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they SAW the God of Israel. . . . They SAW God, and did eat and drink."

Please notice this contradiction is a doctrinal contradiction.

[Cerebrum123]

Cerebrum123 claiming "The Quran still confirmed the Old Testament, and New Testament during Mohammed's time was the "word of Allah"" is not found in the Quran and I challenge you to quote one verse from the Quran to shown the Quran confirms the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Which old testament are you referring to please? The Protestant Old Testament has 39 books while the Catholic Old Testament has 46 books in them. There is corruption regardless of the reason of the corruption.

This debate is not about the preservation of the Bible. It is rather about if the Bible inspired by God

Given Mohammed was supposed to be talking about the Torah, then the Jewish one. You do know what apocrypha are, right? Those are the books that Protestants and Catholics/eastern Orthodox disagree about.

And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir

He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. S. 3:3 Khalifa

And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what IS with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.' S. 3:81

Just a small sample. A fuller treatment can be read here on TWeb

[Cerebrum123]

Another flat out contradiction is that According to Exodus 24:9-10, Moses and others SAW ; however, 1 Timothy 6:16 says "whom no man has seen God NOR CAN see him"

Exodus 24:9-11 say "Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they SAW the God of Israel. . . . They SAW God, and did eat and drink."

Please notice this contradiction is a doctrinal contradiction.

This opens up the whole can of worms regarding the Trinity, theodicy, and more. You haven't even tried to understand what we've already given you, so I'm not even going to attempt to go into even deeper subjects with you.

[Same Hakeem]

This opens up the whole can of worms regarding the Trinity, theodicy, and more. You haven't even tried to understand what we've already given you, so I'm not even going to attempt to go into even deeper subjects with you.

OF course you cannot go deeper with these flat out contradictions.

[Cerebrum123]

OF course you cannot go deeper with these flat out contradictions.

[Same Hakeem]

Thanks Cerebrum123 for your comments.

I agree the Quran confirms the scriptures before the arrival of prophet Mohammed that such scriptures are inspired by God.as revealed by God. So we have to see if the Bible (whether Protestant or Catholic Bible) we have today is inspired by God. One way to know if the Bible is inspired by God is that contradictions should not be in the Bible as per Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is flawless".

One of the flat out contradictions is as follows;

Exodus 24:11 tells "They SAW God" whereas 1 Timothy 6:16 says "who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom NO ONE HAS SEEN or CAN SEE."

Another flat out contradiction is as follows;

2 Kings 8:26 says "Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began to rule" whereas "Ahaziah was 42 years old when he began to rule" according to 2 Chronicles 22:2.

I debated the inspiration of the Bible so I am not going to address the preservation of the Bible.

[Christian3]

One of the flat out contradictions is as follows;

Another flat out contradiction is as follows;

2 Kings 8:26 says "Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began to rule" whereas "Ahaziah was 42 years old when he began to rule" according to 2 Chronicles 22:2.