Debate Thread: Is the Bible Inspired by God? Hakeem v. 37818

[Bill the Cat]

This thread is for a formal debate between Hakeem and 37818. It is strictly for the two of them.

37818 is taking the affirmative and will be going first and Hakeem will be taking the negative and going second.


Please address commentary to the commentary thread located here:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...y-God&p=462202

[37818]

Is the Bible inspired by God?

Yes - in that the Bible being 66 books which were God-breathed. Consisting of some 40 different human writers whom God chose to write His words.

Of the 66 books, 39 of the writings are of the Hebrew Old Covenant. 27 of the writings are of the New Covenant.

The 39 Hebrew writings are the same 24 writings of the Jewish Tanakh/Bible.

The Torah/the Law, 5 books:
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

The Prophets:
Former Prophets, 4 books:.
Joshua
Judges
Samuel
Kings
Latter Prophets, 4 books:
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel
The Twelve Prophets

The Writings:
Poetical Books, 3:
Psalms
Job
Proverbs
Five Scrolls, 5:
Ruth
Song of Songs
Ecclesiastes
Lamentations
Esther
Historical Books, 3:
Daniel
Ezra-Nehemiah
Chronicles.

As the 39 books:
The Law 5 books:
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

Poetry 5 books:
Job
Psalms (of which there are 150 each)
Proverbs
Ecclesiastes
Song of Solomon

History 12 books:
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
1 Samuel
2 Samuel
1 Kings
2 Kings
1 Chronicles
2 Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
Esther

Prophets 17 books:
Major Prophets 5 books:
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations
Ezekiel
Daniel
Minor Prophets 12 books:
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

Now the New Covenant 27 books:
Gospels 4 books:
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John

History 1 book:
Acts - written by Luke as a continuation of his gospel account.

Letters 21 books:
Written by the Apostle Paul, 13 books:

Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
General letters, 8 books:
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude

Prophecy, 1 book;
Revelation

All 66 books were God-breathed writings upon being written. They were received as such by the people of Israel and Christians, as the respective writings were given to each respective person or group. And handed down, and copies made, and handed down. And became the collection of writings we now call the Bible.

Our concept of inspiration being God-breathed was expressed through the Apostle Paul in his second letter to Timothy.
". . . And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

(2 Timothy 3:15-17)

The Greek translated "inspiration of God" means literally "God-breathed."

God's revelation is both in His creation and special revelation, His written word given to man.

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

And it is in this first written book of the Law called Genesis is where God is revealed that He spoke to His creation "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3).

And God spoke and made promises to Abraham. "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" (Genesis 12:1-3).

Without the Genesis the first book of the Law we would not know of Abraham or of his descendants.

In the second book of the Law God spoke to Moses saying, " I [am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" (Exodus 3:6).

In the fifth book of the Law, God said, ". . . know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live" (Deuteronomy 8:3).

By all the word of God man must live. However it was given by God in the original, that is the word of God man must live by. Not men's private interpretation, not the accidental or deliberate alterations in the copies of what was originally written, nor that of any translators' altered version of it. But what God's word was as He originally gave it, that word man must live by.

The Apostle Paul wrote in his letter to the Roman church that God's word is our basis of belief, ". . . So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. . ." (Romans 10:16-17).

The Apostle is citing from the 19th Psalm as a sacred writing given by God, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the sky sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. . ." (Psalm 19:1-4).

So faith comes from God's word spoken through His creation. What we call natural revelation. All of nature and the laws of physics which governs our universe. It is the same God-breathed word by which He gives us His written word.

Our Prophet Jesus in prayer to God that night, He was betrayed, said, ". . . Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth. . ." (John 17:17).

Truth from God is the only valid basis for any beliefs. Whether it be from study of science or from the sacred writings.

God told His prophet Isaiah, ". . . So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. . ." (Isaiah 55:11).

Now the sacred writings were God's word being as God originally spoke them, whether directly as God stated or though His chosen as He giving them their own words to speak, or the citing what was said by another person or entity.

The Psalmist states that God preserves His word eternally, "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven" (Psalm 119:89).

God's Law forbids the alteration of His word, "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it" (Deuteronomy 12:32).

In Proverbs this promise and warning is found, "Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar" (Proverbs 30:5-6).

The Prophet Jesus taught the unbelievers that would not hear God's word, "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God" (John 8:47).

And those who would not believe the Prophet Jesus, Jesus said to them, "For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me: for he wrote of Me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe My word?" (John 5:46-47.)

God told Moses, "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto My words which He shall speak in My name, I will require [it] of him" (Deuteronomy 18:18-19).

Now the Prophet Jesus was spoken to be, to be born of a woman by the same word of God which gave us creation and gave us the sacred writings. God gave Isaiah the prophet these words, "Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a *virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Isaiah 7:14).

* The Hebrew meaning a chaste young woman. In Matthew's gospel account God Himself translates the word to mean virgin (Matthew 2:23).

In summary:

God breathed the words for all of the books of the Bible.

Man must live by all of God's words whether they be natural revelation or written revelation or
the person of the Prophet Jesus.

Misinterpretation of God's written word, copyist errors, whether accidental or deliberate, or translation variants do not change what God gave as His word. Man must live by God's word as God gave it.

The Bible is God's word as God gave it, not as how it may have been changed for whatever reason.

[Same Hakeem]

[37818]

Your opening arguments cite from 3 books of the 66 book Bible as being authorative regarding writings being God-breathed - effectively conceding them to be God-breathed written documents.

Having established the criteria, I would to test the Bible against these two above-mentioned criterion.

Starting with the first criterion that false prophecies cannot be inspired by God, while it is true that certain prophecies in the Bible came true certain other prophecies were either unfullfilled or fullfilled incorrect as will be shown below;

1. Jermaiah 22:30 (KJV) says, "Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man (Jeconiah) childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

According to the prophecy of Jermaiah 22:30, Jeconiah could not be descendant that could sit upon the throne of David. However, Matthew 1:11 & 16 shows that Jesus is one of Jeconiah's descendant. So, Jesus could not sit upon the throne of David. However, Luke 1:32 says, "the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David"

It is known by Bible Christians that the descendants from Jeconiah, of whom God will not allow to sit on David's throne. This is regarded as another prophecy which makes it necessary that Jesus be born of a mother without a human father. Now Joseph was of the lineage of David through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6) giving Joseph the "legal" right to David's throne. But is God's promise which forbids descendants of Jeconiah from ever sitting on David's throne. Now Jesus' mother was a descendant of David through Nathan (Luke 3:31). Making Joseph [the son] of Heli in being the son in law of Heli (Luke 3:23). So even though Jesus was born of Mary without a human father according to the God-breathed word, Joseph was by marriage Jesus' legal parent, giving Jesus the legal right to David's throne per God's promise.

2. Genesis 35:10 says, "God said unto him (Jacob), Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel." This is false prophecy because later in Genesis 46:2, "God spoke unto Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob, Jacob. And Jacob said, Here am I."

You are not understanding God's name change of Jacob to Israel. God would still address Israel as Jacob when Israel was not trusting God in submission, so in this then God would indeed call Israel Jacob when Israel was not being in submission. Israel was being afraid, God had to reassure Israel.

". . . And Israel took his journey with all that he had, and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices unto the God of his father Isaac. And God spake unto Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob, Jacob. And he said, Here [am] I. And he said, I [am] God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation: I will go down with thee into Egypt; and I will also surely bring thee up [again]: and Joseph shall put his hand upon thine eyes. And Jacob rose up from Beersheba: and the sons of Israel carried Jacob their father, and their little ones, and their wives, in the wagons which Pharaoh had sent to carry him. . . ." -- Genesis 46:1-5.

The text and context affirms Jacob' name is indeed changed to Israel. And so it is today that the people and nation are not called Jacob, but are called Israel.

3. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV), Paul said, "16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

This is another false prophecy. Paul declared that Paul himself and others then living would remain alive and be taken up in the air to meet Jesus as it is evident in the use of " we" by Paul. But nothing of the sort took place.

The plural "we" is not limited to Paul and those living when Paul wrote. The "we" refers to "believers" who remain alive at the Lord's coming.
". . . Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 15:52-53.

4. John 7:52 (KJV) says, "They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet." However, several Jewish prophits such Jonah, were from Galilee.

Men were saying this. God recorded what men said.

5. Genesis 15:18 (KJV) says, " In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:"

This is false prophecy because Israel territory never extended upto this day to the Euphrates.

The prophet Moses is responsible for Genesis. And God gave the same promise to Moses and Joshua.

". . . Turn you, and take your journey, and go to the mount of the Amorites, and unto all [the places] nigh thereunto, in the plain, in the hills, and in the vale, and in the south, and by the sea side, to the land of the Canaanites, and unto Lebanon, unto the great river, the river Euphrates. Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them. . . ." -- Deuteronomy 1:7-8.

". . . Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. . . ." -- Joshua 1:3-4.

". . . David smote also Hadadezer, the son of Rehob, king of Zobah, as he went to recover his border at the river Euphrates. . . ." 2 Samuel 8:3.

". . . And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the *river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life. . . . _ . . . For he had dominion over all [the region] on this side the *river, from Tiphsah even to Azzah, over all the kings on this side the *river: and he had peace on all sides round about him. . . ." -- ! Kings 4:21-24.

*river -- Euphrates. Historically Solomon's kingdom bordered the Euphrates river.

6. Joel 3:17 (KJV) says, "So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more."

It is well known that strangers always passed and continue to pass through Jerusalem. So, this is a false prophecy.

That is to be understood to be yet future.
Its final fulfillment will be in the new heaven and earth:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. . . . _ . . . the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, . . . _ . . . And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: . . ." -- Revelation 21:1, 10, 27.

7. Zephaniah 3:13 (KJV) says, "The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth:"

Like others, the remnant of Israel never stopped and will never stop to do iniquity and to speak lies. Hence, this prophecy is false.

Again, this is of the prophecy of in the new heaven and earth.


And again a fact, you are citing another prophecy of the future.

9. 2 Samuel 7:10 (KJV) says,

"Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,"

It is a fact this prophecy is false as violent men afflict Jews even in modren Isreal.

And again, another prophecy with a yet future fulfillment.

Your arguments, items numbered 6-9, fall under the topic of eschatology.


First, Joseph and Mary were instructed to call the child born to them by the given name, Jesus (Matthew 1:21; Luke 1:31). Second, since the citing of the prophecy of being called Immanuel for the one whose given name is Jesus, Jesus has been called Immanuel. By Christians all over the world, to this day refer to Jesus as Immanuel.

[Same Hakeem]

[Bill the Cat]

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