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This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
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Study Disproves The Bible
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Last edited by Adrift; 07-29-2017, 01:02 PM.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostEh, that is pretty much the prevailing view in much of Old Testament scholarship.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View PostHate to spoil all the fun but modern archaeology and study of the origins of Israelite religion have shown that the original Israelites were Canaanites and that Yahweh was just a minor polytheistic deity worshiped alongside others and subordinate to El the Canaanite deity. Only later did he become the "favorite" god of the Israelites and was promoted to "The only God" status after a long political and ideological process that culminated around the time of the Babylonian exile. Hate to break it to you.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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"The original god of Israel was El. This reconstruction may be inferred from two pieces of information. First, the name of Israel is not a Yahwistic name with the divine element of Yahweh, but an El name, with the element, *’ ēl. This fact would suggest that El was the original chief god of the group named Israel."
"Yet early on, Yahweh is understood as Israel’s god in distinction to El. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 casts Yahweh in the role of one of the sons of El, here called ‘elyôn...
This passage presents an order in which each deity received its own nation. Israel was the nation that Yahweh received. It also suggests that Yahweh, originally a warrior-god from Sinai/Paran/Edom/Teiman, was known separately from El at an early point in early Israel." - Mark S. Smith, The Early History of God, pg. 32.
https://books.google.com/books?id=1y...page&q&f=false
This guy teaches at Princeton and is representing the mainstream consensus view. Not so funny anymore is it?Last edited by RhinestoneCowboy; 07-29-2017, 02:08 PM.
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Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View PostHate to spoil all the fun but modern archaeology and study of the origins of Israelite religion have shown that the original Israelites were Canaanites and that Yahweh was just a minor polytheistic deity worshiped alongside others and subordinate to El the Canaanite deity. Only later did he become the "favorite" god of the Israelites and was promoted to "The only God" status after a long political and ideological process that culminated around the time of the Babylonian exile. Hate to break it to you.
I don't think it's so much a political struggle as much as it's an attempt to grapple with the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostYeah it is. But these sorts of prevailing views tend to swing from period to period as new discoveries, and new researchers reassess the data. We see it happening all the time in New Testament studies.
Don't believe me? There was a recent article about "queering John's Jesus," seeing the Jesus portrayed in the Gospel of John as a queer black woman.
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Originally posted by seer View PostStudy disproves the Bible's suggestion that the ancient Canaanites were wiped out
Except the bible makes clear that all Canaanites were not destroyed:
So the study actually confirms the bible.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostAs much as it pains me to agree with you, that's largely the case. I wouldn't say all the original Israelites were Canaanites, but certainly a large number of them were. I think you can characterize pre-exilic Israelite religion as henotheistic, rather than polytheistic. It's clear that the J source believes that YHWH is the high god, though certainly not the only one.
I don't think it's so much a political struggle as much as it's an attempt to grapple with the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.That's what
- She
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostJEDP? Seriously??Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostJEDP? Seriously??
I hold to something like the fragmentary hypothesis.
My issue with the DH is that the division of sources seems arbitrary and I'm not convinced that there inexorably has to be an evolution of Israelite religion in the way that Wellhausen and later writers saw.
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Originally posted by psstein View PostNT is less susceptible to these kinds of shifts, because NT is in many ways a much easier field. There's less information and time frame to cover, you need to know fewer languages, etc. Right now, NT is shifting away from history and towards more pastoral tools, or simply re-writing the text as however one sees fit.
Don't believe me? There was a recent article about "queering John's Jesus," seeing the Jesus portrayed in the Gospel of John as a queer black woman."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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