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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Human Dignity?

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  • Human Dignity?

    Webster; dignity: the quality or state of being worthy, honored, or esteemed


    "A Rat Is a Pig Is a Dog Is a Boy..." Ingrid Newkirk PETA...
    Logically, and inherently, do humans have more dignity than animals?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Logically, and inherently, do humans have more dignity than animals?
    Humans are the only animals that blush, or needs to.

    Mark Twain
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      Humans are the only animals that blush, or needs to.

      Mark Twain
      And that gives them more dignity than animals?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        And that gives them more dignity than animals?
        No
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          No
          Then what does?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Then what does?
            Charles can answer that judging by the thread link below.

            http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post463535
            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Logically, and inherently, do humans have more dignity than animals?
              Find me an animal other than humans that honors or esteems itself. I think that will answer your question.
              I'm not here anymore.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                Find me an animal other than humans that honors or esteems itself. I think that will answer your question.
                Show me another species that will kill one of its members for fun. In other words, not all human beings esteem or honors other human beings. Or in some cases not even itself.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Show me another species that will kill one of its members for fun. In other words, not all human beings esteem or honors other human beings. Or in some cases not even itself.
                  How is that relevant? You're asking the difference between humans and other animals when it comes to dignity. Other animals aren't capable (so far as we know) of comprehending the concept, let alone applying it to another. That alone is more than sufficient to say that humans have more dignity than animals. We're the only ones capable of it. Whether or not we always act accordingly is another question altogether.
                  I'm not here anymore.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                    How is that relevant? You're asking the difference between humans and other animals when it comes to dignity. Other animals aren't capable (so far as we know) of comprehending the concept, let alone applying it to another. That alone is more than sufficient to say that humans have more dignity than animals. We're the only ones capable of it. Whether or not we always act accordingly is another question altogether.
                    Yes, but why does the fact that some humans confer esteem, while other don't, necessarily leads to humans having dignity? I don't see how that follows.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Yes, but why does the fact that some humans confer esteem, while other don't, necessarily leads to humans having dignity? I don't see how that follows.
                      You don't see how it follows that because "some humans confer esteem", humans have dignity? It's in the definition. I don't understand how this is confusing. Nothing in the definition requires unanimous recognition of that state, let alone acting on that recognition.

                      It sounds like you're treating the word 'dignity' as a referent to some intrinsic quality of humanity. That's not what the word means. It's entirely subjective what qualifies as 'worthy, honored, or esteemed'. Just look at North Korea's Dear Leader. He certainly meets all those definitions, even if we don't think of him that way.
                      I'm not here anymore.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                        You don't see how it follows that because "some humans confer esteem", humans have dignity? It's in the definition. I don't understand how this is confusing. Nothing in the definition requires unanimous recognition of that state, let alone acting on that recognition.
                        So basically because some humans think we have esteem, we have dignity?

                        It sounds like you're treating the word 'dignity' as a referent to some intrinsic quality of humanity. That's not what the word means. It's entirely subjective what qualifies as 'worthy, honored, or esteemed'. Just look at North Korea's Dear Leader. He certainly meets all those definitions, even if we don't think of him that way.
                        So if it is a subjective consideration then who is correct - people who believe that their fellow man has dignity or those who don't? And if it is subjective what is stopping a Ingrid Newkirk from logically conferring the same dignity on animals?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          So basically because some humans think we have esteem, we have dignity?
                          Close. Because some humans esteem other humans, they confer dignity. 'Some' here is a little misleading, though, given that almost everyone holds someone else (if not multiple people) in high esteem.


                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          So if it is a subjective consideration then who is correct - people who believe that their fellow man has dignity or those who don't? And if it is subjective what is stopping a Ingrid Newkirk from logically conferring the same dignity on animals?
                          There's not a 'correct'. Someone who holds another in high esteem views them with dignity. Someone who doesn't will not view others with dignity. And nothing stops Ingrid from doing so. He can view whatever he wants as having dignity. So what? That doesn't say anything about the object of his view. It can only ever say something about himself.

                          Ingrid's statement is one of belief, not fact. He can't make dogs and cats equal with humans simply by saying so, nor can he make them have the same traits we do. He can do two things: 1) state his belief that all animals are equal with humans, and 2) claim that we should therefore treat animals the same way we treat humans.
                          I'm not here anymore.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                            Close. Because some humans esteem other humans, they confer dignity. 'Some' here is a little misleading, though, given that almost everyone holds someone else (if not multiple people) in high esteem.
                            Yes, but if we didn't hold a particular person or group in esteem than that means that they don't have dignity?




                            There's not a 'correct'. Someone who holds another in high esteem views them with dignity. Someone who doesn't will not view others with dignity. And nothing stops Ingrid from doing so. He can view whatever he wants as having dignity. So what? That doesn't say anything about the object of his view. It can only ever say something about himself.
                            Since dignity is a subjective consideration in your view then we can confer it on whom or what we choose - no one being more or less correct about their judgments.



                            Ingrid's statement is one of belief, not fact. He can't make dogs and cats equal with humans simply by saying so, nor can he make them have the same traits we do. He can do two things: 1) state his belief that all animals are equal with humans, and 2) claim that we should therefore treat animals the same way we treat humans.
                            But what do you have but belief? That because of certain qualities humans have dignity, but why can't other qualities, more common in the animal kingdom, equally be the basis for dignity? I mean if human dignity is not intrinsic then people like Ingrid and Singer have a logical argument. Ingrid Newkirk BTW is a woman and the President of PETA.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                              You don't see how it follows that because "some humans confer esteem", humans have dignity? It's in the definition. I don't understand how this is confusing. Nothing in the definition requires unanimous recognition of that state, let alone acting on that recognition.

                              It sounds like you're treating the word 'dignity' as a referent to some intrinsic quality of humanity. That's not what the word means. It's entirely subjective what qualifies as 'worthy, honored, or esteemed'. Just look at North Korea's Dear Leader. He certainly meets all those definitions, even if we don't think of him that way.
                              Since we have fairly poor communications with animals at such a level, can you tell me why you are sure that none of them "confer esteem?"
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment

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