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Thread: Human Dignity?

  1. #21
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    I have been looking forward to your answer but it appers you have got nothing but questions. You started the thread and so far you have offered nothing in order to answer it positive or negative. You must have an opinion, or?
    As a Christian Charles I think you already know how I would answer. That we are created in the image of God, are sacred and we have inherent purpose.
    “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” D.H. Lawrence

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrikature View Post
    It means that you don't hold them in esteem. It could be that another member of their group does. It's not a universal trait.
    What is not a universal trait? Dignity?


    Exactly. That's why I said there's not a correct
    .

    ????


    Any quality could be the basis for dignity. That's why I say it's subjective. It's very dependent on culture.

    I'm not sure what you think the logical argument is, though. They could make a claim that uses their beliefs about dignity and animals as the premises, and they could use those premises to form a logical conclusion. The best they ever get is a valid conclusion. They can't make a sound argument without establishing that their beliefs are true, and there's no way to do that.
    So then there is no way that you can conclude that human dignity is any more than a unprovable belief - correct?
    “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” D.H. Lawrence

  3. #23
    tWebber Carrikature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    As a Christian Charles I think you already know how I would answer. That we are created in the image of God, are sacred and we have inherent purpose.
    None of which has anything to do with 'dignity', particularly given the definition you provided. I knew this is what you were going for. Why can't you just use the real words you mean?
    I'm not here anymore.

  4. #24
    tWebber Carrikature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    What is not a universal trait? Dignity?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    ????
    What is this supposed to be?


    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    So then there is no way that you can conclude that human dignity is any more than a unprovable belief - correct?
    Nooo. Dignity isn't a belief. It's a statement of how you feel about another person. The qualities you use to evaluate dignity are beliefs.
    I'm not here anymore.

  5. #25
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrikature View Post
    None of which has anything to do with 'dignity', particularly given the definition you provided. I knew this is what you were going for. Why can't you just use the real words you mean?
    Dignity is linked to worth: The state of being worthy or honorable; elevation of mind or character; true worth; excellence. The state of being worthy, that is an inherent quality.
    “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” D.H. Lawrence

  6. #26
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    This dog has dignity down pat.

    -EFlgU.gif

  7. Amen Carrikature amen'd this post.
  8. #27
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrikature View Post
    Yes.
    OK, so human dignity is not a universal human trait.


    What is this supposed to be?
    I did not understand your point.


    Nooo. Dignity isn't a belief. It's a statement of how you feel about another person. The qualities you use to evaluate dignity are beliefs.
    I'm not sure I follow, to say that any human being has dignity is a belief, some may not believe that any human beings have dignity - that too would be a belief.
    “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” D.H. Lawrence

  9. #28
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    As a Christian Charles I think you already know how I would answer. That we are created in the image of God, are sacred and we have inherent purpose.
    I knew that was the position but I don't know how you would present these thoughts with regard to logic. Is it something you can justify logically? It seems you hold that if human beings have different views on dignity, then it is too subjective to really be anything. But people have different views on God, different views on the purpose of creation and so on. So can you point to something objective or a you rather presenting a subjective view?

  10. #29
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles View Post
    I knew that was the position but I don't know how you would present these thoughts with regard to logic. Is it something you can justify logically? It seems you hold that if human beings have different views on dignity, then it is too subjective to really be anything. But people have different views on God, different views on the purpose of creation and so on. So can you point to something objective or a you rather presenting a subjective view?
    No Charles, it is an "if" - if a God akin to the Christian God exists then this follows. And Charles we all believe things that are not logically justifiable as you and I discussed. If such a God does not exist, however, then men have no inherent worth or dignity since nature confers no such status on humankind.
    “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” D.H. Lawrence

  11. #30
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    No Charles, it is an "if" - if a God akin to the Christian God exists then this follows. And Charles we all believe things that are not logically justifiable as you and I discussed. If such a God does not exist, however, then men have no inherent worth or dignity since nature confers no such status on humankind.
    So what you are saying is that it is an "if" whether humans have dignity. It seems to follow from this that it is also an "if" if I can kill, torture and mishandle other human beings, since, if I got you right, if God does not exist, dignity does not exist? Would you mean to imply an "if" to the most extreme things human beings have done? Would you imply an "if" if they were done to you? Do you usually start to doubt whether human beings have dignity once you start to doubt in God (if that happens)?

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