The Use, Value, and Meaning of John 1:1 in Witnessing to JWs

[Hebrew Student]

Hey Everyone!

I have heard Dr. James White say many times that he doesn't start with John 1:1 in witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses. The reason is that most Jehovah's Witnesses have a preprogrammed response to John 1:1 that they just rattle off when ever they hear the verse mentioned. Now, I am not saying that John 1:1 doesn't teach the orthodox view of the Deity of Christ. I believe that it clearly does. It is just that, you can run into issues with Jehovah's Witnesses simply closing up, and not listening to what you have to say because of their preprogrammed response.

However, what I would wonder is when you think it is best to bring up the issue of John 1:1 with a Jehovah's Witness? What is the best way to present it? What are some common errors to avoid in presenting its meaning [e.g., arguing that θεος is definite instead of qualitative]?

[Hebrew Student]

Wow, 25 views and no replies.

Okay, I will add one of my own to get the discussion started. One of the things I think that needs to be recognized is the possibility of semantic overlap between indefinite, qualitative, and definite. JW's will argue for the definite or indefinite nature of θεος, and the mere statement that it is qualitative does not rule that out. One must demonstrate that the point is not to categorize the λογος, but to state things about him [he eternally existed, he had an intimate relationship with God, etc.]. Thus, the notion of quality seems to be consistent with the intent of the author, rather then the classification of the Logos amongst things called "θεος," whether that is speaking of the λογος as being a member of that class, or as a particular member of that class.

[RBerman]

You appear to have answered your own question.

[37818]

John 1:1, 2, 18, NWT,

In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God. . . . _ . . . No man has seen God at any time; the only‐begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

John 1:1, 2, 18, NASB.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. . . . _ . . . No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained [Him].

The problem is over the capitalization of the term "god" and its meaning in regards to the Word being "only begotten" of God the Father. (v.14; John 17:3. Isaiah 43:10. Exodus 7:1.)

In John 1:1 the "Word was god" refers not to the Person, the Word being the Person God but to the Person, the Word having the Nature of God (v.3). Should it be translated "God," "a god" or "god?" That should be asked. And for the why of their answer.

[RBerman]

The issue for JWs is not ultimately about the wording of John 1:1. It's about the authority which JWs cede to the Watchtower in order to determine what they are to believe and not believe. Today, anyway; tomorrow the Watchtower may totally reverse what they instruct people to believe about various Bible verses. It's happened many times since Rutherford seized controls of the Bible and Tract Society in the early 20th century. The history of the whole thing is as fascinating as a train wreck.

[David_A_Reed]

The issue for JWs is not ultimately about the wording of John 1:1. It's about the authority which JWs cede to the Watchtower in order to determine what they are to believe and not believe. Today, anyway; tomorrow the Watchtower may totally reverse what they instruct people to believe about various Bible verses. It's happened many times since Rutherford seized controls of the Bible and Tract Society in the early 20th century. The history of the whole thing is as fascinating as a train wreck.

Very true!

So, back to the OP's question of when to bring up John 1:1 in talks with JWs. You can bring it up any time, but keep in mind that the JW will usually base his belief, not on convincing arguments or proof, but on what the Watchtower says to believe.

If you want to really get somewhere in the discussion, it is usually necessary first to document that the Watchtower has changed its beliefs back and forth, has taught ridiculous things that could not have come from God (e.g., regarding the pyramids, Alcyone, etc.), and has acted as a false prophet on a number of occasions.

After the JW begins to see that the Watchtower is not God's infallible channel of communication, then it is possible to get the JW to re-think his understanding of Scripture.

Of course, having said that, there are always exceptions. It was reading the Bible and falling in love with Jesus that got my wife and me started on the road out of the organization.

David

[foudroyant]

Hello David,

Thank you for your insights. Do you have a link that you can give about your exit from the Watchtower?

Thank you

[RBerman]

It was reading the Bible and falling in love with Jesus that got my wife and me started on the road out of the organization.

I too would love to hear about that. How much does the typical JW study the Bible? I know there are lots of meetings, but are they mainly studies of Watchtower publications rather than Scripture itself?

[David_A_Reed]

Hello David,

Thank you for your insights. Do you have a link that you can give about your exit from the Watchtower?

Thank you

Yes, you can find it at http://www.answerjw.com/rescue/preface.htm and a few other web sites.

Enjoy!
David

[David_A_Reed]

I too would love to hear about that. How much does the typical JW study the Bible? I know there are lots of meetings, but are they mainly studies of Watchtower publications rather than Scripture itself?

Yes, the annual JW study program is supposed to include some Bible reading, but the average JW never does it because there are so many magazines, books, etc. that they are assigned to read in preparation for question-and-answer sessions at the meetings.

As I point out in my testimony link in the other response above, my wife and I actually counted up all of the material that the organization expected Witnesses to read. The books, magazines, lessons, etc., added up to over three thousand pages each year, compared with less than two hundred pages of Bible reading assigned—and most of that was in the Old Testament. The majority of Witnesses were so bogged down by the three thousand pages of the organization’s literature that they never got around to reading the Bible itself.

David

[apostoli]

I would wonder is when you think it is best to bring up the issue of John 1:1 with a Jehovah's Witness?

After discussing Jesus' reply to Thomas at John 14:7 and then Thomas' later realisation at John 20:28.

[apostoli]

Yes, the annual JW study program is supposed to include some Bible reading, but the average JW never does it because there are so many magazines, books, etc. that they are assigned to read in preparation for question-and-answer sessions at the meetings.

As I point out in my testimony link in the other response above, my wife and I actually counted up all of the material that the organization expected Witnesses to read. The books, magazines, lessons, etc., added up to over three thousand pages each year, compared with less than two hundred pages of Bible reading assigned—and most of that was in the Old Testament. The majority of Witnesses were so bogged down by the three thousand pages of the organization’s literature that they never got around to reading the Bible itself.

What a lot of crap...

Via my ex-wife I had 18 years of association with the JWs. They, at least the committed ones, are encouraged to read scripture every night (I forget exactly, but I'm thinking there was a set reading for each day, so by the end of the year you had read scripture cover to cover. Most churches of all denominations have a similiar program) In fact when we had dinner parties with her friends time was spent taking turns in reading some chapter of scripture.

As for meetings with reading material. There is the book study (takes up less than an hour in preparation), then about an hour of book study at someoneone's house. Imo, much like the procedures used by the RCC in their study of the Catechism. By the way, lots of scripture citations involved.

Then usually on Sundays, after the public meeting there is the Watchtower study. Format is much like the book study.

The third meeting (optional) is the Ministry school which is much like participating in a Toastmasters session.

Apart from that, depending on who you were you either gave a personal study in someone's home, or received one. Off and on I was on the receiving end for a lot of years and exhausted many a pioneer, elder and overseer...

[RBerman]

What a lot of crap...

Via my ex-wife I had 18 years of association with the JWs. They, at least the committed ones, are encouraged to read scripture every night (I forget exactly, but I'm thinking there was a set reading for each day, so by the end of the year you had read scripture cover to cover. Most churches of all denominations have a similiar program) In fact when we had dinner parties with her friends time was spent taking turns in reading some chapter of scripture.

As for meetings with reading material. There is the book study (takes up less than an hour in preparation), then about an hour of book study at someoneone's house. Imo, much like the procedures used by the RCC in their study of the Catechism. By the way, lots of scripture citations involved.

Then usually on Sundays, after the public meeting there is the Watchtower study. Format is much like the book study.

The third meeting (optional) is the Ministry school which is much like participating in a Toastmasters session.

Apart from that, depending on who you were you either gave a personal study in someone's home, or received one. Off and on I was on the receiving end for a lot of years and exhausted many a pioneer, elder and overseer...

Sounds like the experience of your JW friends was different than David Reed's experience. How shall we determine whose experience is more normative?

[David_A_Reed]

Well, as I recall (although I left the JWs 31 years ago), it went something like this:
284 pages of a book covered at the Tuesday night bookstudy
768 pages reading each 32-page WATCHTOWER magazine when it came out twice a month
768 pages reading each 32-page AWAKE! magazine when it came out twice a month
96 pages reading each 4-to-8 page KINGDOM MINISTRY when it came out monthly
XXX pages reading each week's Kingdom Ministry School assignments (I don't recall the exact numbers at the moment)
XX pages re-reading each WATCHTOWER study article and underlining answers for the weekly meeting
XX pages preparing material for each week's Service Meeting
XX pages reading daily material from the Yearbook
TOTAL - I don't have all the figures at my finger tips, but when my wife and I calculated it at the time (1982) it did add up to more than 3000 pages.

As a JW elder, I recall another elder confiding in me that he hoped to actually read the Bible cover to cover some day -- he had never done so yet, not even once. Nor had the average Witness that I knew.

David

[David_A_Reed]

PS I recall the annual Bible reading assigned for the Kingdom Ministry School to have been around 186 pages.

David