Sit Down and Shut Up, You <insert strong language here>

[Darth Executor]

Holy crap.

sorry leftist, I know you're used to being able to fling words like racist and fascist and having conservatives cower in apologetics. That card's played out.

[Teallaura]

Holy crap.

Um, Sea, you might wanna think about this one. Fascism in the public mind isn't the same thing as the spectrum of fascist philosophy - which includes some things beyond nazism and statism. Personally, I disagree with DE but I have an idea where he's going and the case is not totally without merit (that's as far as I'll concede for the moment, anyway).

[Teallaura]

Or y'all can just jab it out with each other...

[Sea of red]

sorry leftist, I know you're used to being able to fling wors like racist and fascist and having conservatives cower in apologetics. That card's played out.

It's no worse than they way you play the terms commie and socialist to death, brown shirt.

[Darth Executor]

It's no worse than they way you play the terms commie and socialist to death, brown shirt.

I have repeatedly warned conservatives about overusing those terms. You're barking up the wrong tree loser, you think you're my equivalent but you're not. I'm an original thinker and you're a walking cliche, who exists only to be manipulated by others. Go dance for your masters and stop barking at your betters.

[Sea of red]

Um, Sea, you might wanna think about this one. Fascism in the public mind isn't the same thing as the spectrum of fascist philosophy - which includes some things beyond nazism and statism. Personally, I disagree with DE but I have an idea where he's going and the case is not totally without merit (that's as far as I'll concede for the moment, anyway).

I'm calling a spade a spade, Teal.

I'm aware that fascism is used as a pejorative for totalitarianism, but the shoe still fits. Six of one, have a dozen of the other - it makes no difference. Call him one or the other, he's definitely earned it after years of spouting violent fantasies, and endorsing brutal statism against all who do not share his ideology. I'm far from the first person to notice this about DE.

[Psychic Missile]

You're wrong. Shut up.

Okay, stop a sec - think about your immediate reaction. Did it make you angry? More determined? More likely to fight?

We're talking about people. People I vehemently disagree with but people none the less. Quashing speech we don't like has repercussions we may not be ready to deal with.

As for your analogy, it fails pretty incredibly miserably - do you have any idea what was actually being published in Germany after the war? The German government's crack down on all things Nazi came somewhat later - and antisemitism didn't evaporate. But honestly, the Germans quickly had a lot else to worry about and were past war weary - that had a lot to do with how Germany turned out after the war.

And the Jews, I don't think they really wanted any more pretty lies - they already knew where they stood, which was why they were continuing to leave after liberation.

Sure that's blunt, but there's ultimately no difference between "You're wrong. Shut up." and an ingenuine argument by rationalization where, even if demonstrably wrong, a person ends up running away. The repercussion for engagement is worse than quashing speech. Not only do the white supremacists continue to do what they've been doing, but now the people arguing against them have wasted their time. This is why you see liberal minorities tell centrists/conservatives that its not their job to educate them. This is a very common pattern. When a biased person's opinion is ignored, they just find a more receptive audience. When a biased person's opinion is engaged with, they refer to their view-reinforcing media bubble and use that as a shield for their opinion's emotional core. They didn't reach their conclusion based on consideration of the evidence, so evidence has no meaning.

You're missing my point about the rise of Nazism. Tolerance and reasoned debate has no effect against extremists. You don't fight concentration camps with a CNN-style "both sides" debate, as if white supremacists and people who don't care for genocide are on equal footing. Do you see anything wrong with tolerance and debate with ISIS members? They had plenty of freedom to debate Koranic tenets with more reasonable people. They didn't care. They grew in power and got rid of the people who respectfully disagreed. The end result, regardless of intention, of the "both sides" and "free speech" centrist ideologies we're seeing in response to growing conservative extremism is passivity. The world looked at the Holocaust and said "Never again." Now that we have a resurgence in open white supremacists, the world needs to prove how serious it was.

[Psychic Missile]

lol it's impossible for them to live in social and media bubbles. liberalism is omnipresent. the only people who live in social and media bubbles are liberals because while you can force your opinioins down everyone's throats, it's almost impossible for any other ideology to do the same to you.

btw, there is a communist caucus in congress. Leftist murderous ideologies are pretty much given free reign. Being a leftist terrorist like bill ayers is not a barrier to becoming very successful in progressive dominated fields like academia. It makes absolutely no sense to worry about what neonazis will do to jewish people in a fantasy world where they become the dominant ideology (they're not even liked by most of the right) when the average Jew has far more political power than the average neonazi and when your own murderous death cult and its spin-offs control all academia, all media and most of the government.

The liberalism that white supremacists/the alt-right see is distorted through their bias and media bubble. They have no grasp of actual liberal principles and policy. Look at how prevalent the idea of "cultural Marxism" is.

What is an example of a "leftist murderous ideology"? Collective leftist violence in the US is only a result of strengthened fascist policies. The alt-right has only grown in power over time. They are getting more power in the Republican party because of the need for votes, their internet media is widely popular (Breitbart had more traffic than Fox News last year), the current President's policies are aligned with them, his cabinet has members, and the the alt-right are his more ardent supporters.

[Darth Executor]

The liberalism that white supremacists/the alt-right see is distorted through their bias and media bubble. They have no grasp of actual liberal principles and policy. Look at how prevalent the idea of "cultural Marxism" is.

This is nonsensical and contradictory. The liberalism they see is the same liberalism we all see when we walk out the door or turn on the TV. Everybody sees things "distorted by their bias" it makes no sense to even bring that up. What is happening is that them (and many others) see liberalism exactly for what it is and utterly reject it. And because liberalism is the only thing on offer some are attracted to extremist movements that represent, in some way, the antithesis of liberalism.

What is an example of a "leftist murderous ideology"? Collective leftist violence in the US is only a result of strengthened fascist policies.

No it isn't. This rally is a perfect example of how absurd that is. The fascist policies here were coming from the leftist governor, who tried to stop a lawful assembly, and then forcibly scattered it into antifa (by design) to get the participants hurt. run of the mill leftists routinely attack right wing assemblies, and not just those of neonazis (unless you think Charles Murray or Ben Shapiro are neonazis, in which case you've completely lost the plot).

The alt-right has only grown in power over time. They are getting more power in the Republican party because of the need for votes, their internet media is widely popular (Breitbart had more traffic than Fox News last year), the current President's policies are aligned with them, his cabinet has members, and the the alt-right are his more ardent supporters.

The alt-right =/= white supremacists and breitbart isn't either one.

[Catholicity]

Looks like I struck a nerve referring to you as a fascist.

Truth hurts, eh?

I can't believe I'm doing this since I have had so many qualms with DE but here goes. He is NOT a fascist. Is DE really far to the right? yeah, but I have this hankering sense that it comes from his own experience with whatever his life has been. I don't at all agree with everything he says by any means and we've certainly had our spats, but he's not beyond calling someone out for sheer stupidity even if its over the top. And you certainly have had your own moments. We all have. None of us are free from making poor arguments. On the other hand in your defense I've seen you make good arguments so please make them instead of a blanket statement. I do agree about Demi-Conservative, trying to talk to him is like casting pearls before swine. He tosses constant insults, and says inflammatory statements that aren't true. Be better than that.

[Psychic Missile]

This is nonsensical and contradictory. The liberalism they see is the same liberalism we all see when we walk out the door or turn on the TV. Everybody sees things "distorted by their bias" it makes no sense to even bring that up. What is happening is that them (and many others) see liberalism exactly for what it is and utterly reject it. And because liberalism is the only thing on offer some are attracted to extremist movements that represent, in some way, the antithesis of liberalism.

I've seen alt-right communities and media and they constantly misunderstand liberal positions. Liberalism is not the mainstream or the only thing on offer. Conservatism and centrism have more power in the US.

No it isn't. This rally is a perfect example of how absurd that is. The fascist policies here were coming from the leftist governor, who tried to stop a lawful assembly, and then forcibly scattered it into antifa (by design) to get the participants hurt. run of the mill leftists routinely attack right wing assemblies, and not just those of neonazis (unless you think Charles Murray or Ben Shapiro are neonazis, in which case you've completely lost the plot).

Even if your conspiracy theory were true, you'd still be wrong. It's hard to beat white supremacists when it comes to fascist policy. I differentiate between white supremacists and neonazis. However, white supremacists will turn into neonazis if left unabated, so I will construe the two when I talk about the endgame. Murray and Shapiro are both very influential people who want to bring harm to minorities. It's no wonder there's a violent response.

The alt-right =/= white supremacists and breitbart isn't either one.

There is no difference in gathering places, jargon, or policy opinion. They are identical for all intents and purposes.

"We're the platform for the alt-right." - Steve Bannon

[Jedidiah]

I didn't accuse you of mocking disabled, so decided to be merciful, not respond to you when you raged about being exposed as 'fine with rape'.

KG was never "exposed" as being fine with rape. He was falsely accused of that. By an idiot.

[Bill the Cat]

I didn't accuse you of mocking disabled, so decided to be merciful, not respond to you when you raged about being exposed as 'fine with rape'.

Moderated By: Bill the Cat

That's enough of accusing one of our mods of being "fine with rape" Demi. You've wore out our grace on this, and if you do it again, you will be modded for flaming another user.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

[rogue06]

Moderated By: Bill the Cat

That's enough of accusing one of our mods of being "fine with rape" Demi. You've wore out our grace on this, and if you do it again, you will be modded for flaming another user.

***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

What the annoying orange feller said.

[Darth Executor]

I've seen alt-right communities and media and they constantly misunderstand liberal positions. Liberalism is not the mainstream or the only thing on offer. Conservatism and centrism have more power in the US.

Conservatism is just liberalism from 10 years ago. They can't even conserve the women's washroom, the idea that they have any power is hysterically funny. Neocons have power, but they are just the militant arm of the progressive movement. Social Justice Warriors and corporations have all the real power in the US.

Even if your conspiracy theory were true, you'd still be wrong. It's hard to beat white supremacists when it comes to fascist policy. I differentiate between white supremacists and neonazis. However, white supremacists will turn into neonazis if left unabated, so I will construe the two when I talk about the endgame.

Nazism was german supremacy, most neonazis are just ignorant of nazism or germans themselves. It makes little sense for white supremacy to turn into nazism when it would exclude most white supremacists.

Murray and Shapiro are both very influential people who want to bring harm to minorities. It's no wonder there's a violent response.

You are worse than a neonazi if you seriously think that and I hope nobody else on this board has any more questions about why I'm siding with the neonazis here. It's not like PMS is some sort of radical, he's a typical tweb leftist. KG? Roy?

There is no difference in gathering places, jargon, or policy opinion. They are identical for all intents and purposes.

"We're the platform for the alt-right." - Steve Bannon

Anachronism, alt-right was not almost entirely associated with nazis and white supremacists when bannon said that.