Abrams calls for removal of Confederate faces off Stone Mountain

[tabibito]

And again - no government authorisation of slavery in New Zealand. Taking slaves in defiance of law is a criminal action ... and missionaries acted against slavery (even that which was engaged in by the native inhabitants, and which had been a long going activity before Europeans ever found out that New Zealand existed.)

The argument that criminals do things means the country (and its government) is complicit doesn't seem all that sound.

[Adrift]

And again - no government authorisation of slavery in New Zealand. Taking slaves in defiance of law is a criminal action ... and missionaries acted against slavery (even that which was engaged in by the native inhabitants, and which had been a long going activity before Europeans ever found out that New Zealand existed.)

The argument that criminals do things means the country (and its government) is complicit doesn't seem all that sound.

Which government authorization? Those governments that existed before Christian influence or after? At any rate, it doesn't matter if it's been authorized by a government or if it's been done by those that were later condemned as criminals. Slavery has existed, and continues to exist throughout the world. Slavery existed in New Zealand and Australia (and Canada) before Christians came on the scene, and in many cases it existed, legally, or illegally after Christians came on the scene.

I do agree, however, that where Christianity persisted slavery eventually was wiped out because slavery is antithetical to the Christian view that all are equal in Christ Jesus. It was Christians that led the way in abolitionism of slavery. Not always immediately, and sometimes with great pains, but eventually throughout the world, when and where it could. Yet still it persist, because people are people.

[tabibito]

Which government authorization? Those governments that existed before Christian influence or after? At any rate, it doesn't matter if it's been authorized by a government or if it's been done by those that were later condemned as criminals. Slavery has existed, and continues to exist throughout the world. Slavery existed in New Zealand and Australia (and Canada) before Christians came on the scene, and in many cases it existed, legally, or illegally after Christians came on the scene.

I do agree, however, that where Christianity persisted slavery eventually was wiped out because slavery is antithetical to the Christian view that all are equal in Christ Jesus. It was Christians that led the way in abolitionism of slavery. Not always immediately, and sometimes with great pains, but eventually throughout the world, when and where it could. Yet still it persist, because people are people.

Agreed.

[Mountain Man]

As for my political views, I have a similar view of your beliefs, but I don't try to pretend as though I'm an expert on New Zealand politics or that I somehow am morally better than those who disagree with me.

There's some question about how much Dimbulb even knows about the politics of his own country. He once implied that New Zealand operates as a pure democracy without a constitution, neither of which is entirely true.

[tabibito]

There's some question about how much Dimbulb even knows about the politics of his own country. He once implied that New Zealand operates as a pure democracy without a constitution, neither of which is entirely true.

One of the more impressive gaffes that I have seen.

[Sparko]

None of the Christian colonialists have a good record in treating the indigenous they conquered, Australia included. Although Australia never had slavery, and the prime minister has at least officially apologised in parliament on behalf of the Australian people for its mistreatment of the original inhabitants.

And yet you continue to live on their land subjugating them to second class citizens with your racist white male privilege. shame on you Tassy.

[Sparko]

Source: New Zealand and the Pacific slave trade, From Sunday Morning, 11:06 am on 27 November 2016

New Zealand’s role in the Pacific slave trade is "a dark piece of our history" that is often overlooked, Pacific researcher Scott Hamilton says.

Dr Hamilton says the idea that New Zealand was involved in the slave trade conflicts with our image of ourselves. He told Sunday Morning that in the 1870s, Pacific Island slaves worked in New Zealand flax mills and on the estates of some our wealthiest citizens. “We think of ourselves as the good guys and it’s the Australians and the Americans that had slavery, ‘we didn’t do any of that’. “But as I’ve discovered, we did. And it’s a dark piece of our history but I think it is worth remembering.”

In his book The Stolen Island: Searching for ‘Ata, he tells the story of a slave raid by New Zealand and Tasmanian sailors on the isolated Tongan island of 'Ata in 1863 where nearly 150 people were stolen for sale in the slave market in Peru.

‘Ata is a tiny island – roughly 1.5 square kilometres - about 150km south of Tongatapu, the main island of Tonga, he says. Settled by Tongans in the 1600s, it is surrounded by high cliffs, battered by wild seas and has almost no reef. “And despite all of [those] odds in this incredible tough environment they created a thriving society, Dr Hamilton says. “[But] this was all destroyed in the first week of June 1863 when a man named Thomas McGrath brought a ship up from New Zealand with a mixed Tasmanian/New Zealand crew.”

McGrath had had some previous successes as a whaler, although he had wrecked several boats, and had decided that taking slaves would be more profitable than whaling – which was in decline because of over-exploitation. About 150 ‘Atan men, women and children had swum out to greet the ship, and they had been invited below deck to either view merchandise for trading, or to share a meal – the accounts vary.

“And they don’t get back on the deck. He battens down the hatches and the ship sails away,” Dr Hamilton says. “He [then] sailed to the north of Tonga to the island of Niuafo’ou where he took 30 men, and then he sold the lot of them to a slaver who took them to Peru.

Peru was the notorious centre of the Pacific slave trade at the time. But just as the ‘Atans arrived, pushback from the clergy, revolts on the islands, and internationally pressure had led to the Peruvian government rescinding the law legalising slavery. Instead of being sold on, the ‘Atans were kept in a dank warehouse at the port with other Islanders awaiting repatriation. Then smallpox arrived, spreading quickly through the warehouse, killing many.

Dr Hamilton says McGrath was never tried for the slave raid, but he did face justice for thwarting customs after he returned to Stuart Island with illicit, undeclared, cargo. During this trial he denied taking part in the slave trade saying he was just ferrying islanders around, which elicited laughter in the court, which did not believe him

‘He never faced justice for what he did really,” Dr Hamilton says.

© Copyright Original Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ry#New_Zealand

New Zealand

Before the arrival of European settlers, each Māori tribe (iwi) considered itself a separate entity equivalent to a nation. In traditional Māori society of Aotearoa, prisoners of war became taurekareka, slaves, unless released, ransomed or eaten.[281] With some exceptions, the child of a slave remained a slave.

As far as it is possible to tell, slavery seems to have increased in the early 19th century with increased numbers of prisoners being taken by Māori military leaders, such as Hongi Hika and Te Rauparaha to satisfy the need for labor in the Musket Wars, to supply whalers and traders with food, flax and timber in return for western goods. The intertribal Musket Wars lasted 1807 to 1843 when large numbers of slaves were captured by northern tribes who had acquired muskets. About 20,000 Maori died in the wars which were concentrated in the North Island. An unknown number of slaves were captured. Northern tribes used slaves (called mokai) to grow large areas of potatoes for trade with visiting ships. Chiefs started an extensive sex trade in the Bay of Islands in the 1830s using mainly slave girls. By 1835 about 70–80 ships per year called into the port. One French captain described the impossibility of getting rid of the girls who swarmed over his ship out numbering his crew of 70 by 3 to 1. All payments to the girls were stolen by the chief.[282] By 1833 Christianity had become established in the north and large numbers of slaves were freed. However two Taranaki tribes, Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga, displaced by the wars carried out a carefully planned invasion of the Chatham Islands, 800 km east of Christchurch, in 1835. About 15% of the Polynesian Moriori natives who had migrated to the islands at about 1500 CE were killed, with many women being tortured to death. The remaining population were enslaved for the purpose of growing food, especially potatoes. The Moriori were treated in an inhumane and degrading manner for many years. Their culture was banned and they were forbidden to marry.[283] Slavery was outlawed when the British annexed New Zealand in 1840, immediately prior to the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi, although it did not end completely until government was effectively extended over the whole of the country with the defeat of the Kingi movement in the Wars of the mid-1860s.

Some Maori took Moriori partners. The state of enslavement of Moriori lasted until the 1860s although it had been banned by British law since 1809 and discouraged by CMS missionaries in North New Zealand from the late 1820s. In 1870 Ngati Mutunga, one of the invading tribes, argued before the Native Land Court in New Zealand that their gross mistreatment of the Moriori was standard Maori practice or tikanga.[284]

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/80431938/Slavery-in-New-Zealand-is-increasing-with-migrants-the-most-exploited

Slavery in New Zealand is increasing with migrants the most exploited

© Copyright Original Source

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84236855/likely-thousands-of-migrant-slaves-in-new-zealand-expert

Likely 'thousands' of migrant slaves in New Zealand: Expert

© Copyright Original Source

Oh, okay.

OMG! Starlight and Tassman are slavers! They have benefited from their countries' practice of slavery with their white privilege. They should be held accountable and made to pay reparations. So shameful! And both of them tried to deny their history and claim that their countries were innocent! They raped their land and tried to cover it up! Oh the horror! They are no better than Nazis and White supremacists!

[rogue06]

The ludicrous narrative that slavery only existed in the Americas is absolutely ridiculous. Wherever there have been people there has been slavery. We can call it something else today, but that doesn't make it any less than what it is.

And historically speaking, wrt the Atlantic slave trade, being shipped to the North American continent was about as lucky a break that someone could get in a horrid situation. As brutal as it was (and it was without a doubt cruel and barbaric), things were infinitely worse for those sent to the Carribean or places like Brazil.

[Tassman]

OMG! Starlight and Tassman are slavers! They have benefited from their countries' practice of slavery with their white privilege. They should be held accountable and made to pay reparations. So shameful! And both of them tried to deny their history and claim that their countries were innocent! They raped their land and tried to cover it up! Oh the horror! They are no better than Nazis and White supremacists!

So you are saying that the US should be held accountable for their slavery and made to pay reparations. I agree. And what about the genocide of Native Americans?

[tabibito]

So you are saying that the US should be held accountable for their slavery and made to pay reparations. I agree. And what about the genocide of Native Americans?

A significant proportion of African slaves were sold by native Africans to the slavers. Will you perhaps argue that the descendants of those sellers should be held equally to account, and be required to pay their share of the reparations? ... or perhaps more, given that the practice of slavery continues in Africa.

[Tassman]

A significant proportion of African slaves were sold by native Africans to the slavers. Will you perhaps argue that the descendants of those sellers should be held equally to account, and be required to pay their share of the reparations? ... or perhaps more, given that the practice of slavery continues in Africa.

Many nations have pasts which are less than glorious. The difference is that Australia and NZ, unlike the confederate memorials in Deep South USA, don’t build monuments to celebrate it.

[Starlight]

There's some question about how much Dimbulb even knows about the politics of his own country. He once implied that New Zealand operates as a pure democracy without a constitution, neither of which is entirely true.

New Zealand is one of three countries without a written constitution: time for change
That opinion piece was written last year by a guy who's previously been the Prime Minister of NZ, and is one of the country's top legal scholars.

I get that you're so stupid you make morons look smart by comparison, but please get it through your thick skull that NZ is like the UK and Israel in having a democracy but not a written constitution.

[rogue06]

So you are saying that the US should be held accountable for their slavery and made to pay reparations. I agree. And what about the genocide of Native Americans?

Or maybe that you should get your own house in order before you start throwing stones.

[rogue06]

Many nations have pasts which are less than glorious. The difference is that Australia and NZ, unlike the confederate memorials in Deep South USA, don’t build monuments to celebrate it.

No. They just essentially pretended it never happened.

[rogue06]

A significant proportion of African slaves were sold by native Africans to the slavers. Will you perhaps argue that the descendants of those sellers should be held equally to account, and be required to pay their share of the reparations? ... or perhaps more, given that the practice of slavery continues in Africa.

The image of European slavers going deep into the interior, raiding a village and marching the captured people to the sea and waiting ships while common was in fact very rare (at least in Africa). The overwhelming majority were prisoners of war, criminals disposed of by their own people or captured by tribes that regularly engaged in slavery and taken to one of several ports. When the Atlantic slave trade was outlawed that all but stopped but the practice continued going back nearly exclusively to routes leading to North Africa and the Middle East.