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Poll on Charlottesville march and support for views

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  • Poll on Charlottesville march and support for views

    Putting aside the violence, I'm interested in getting a feel for where TWebbers fall on the spectrum of support for the "Unite the Right" rally that took place in Charlottesville recently where the main march was a group of people upset by the removal of the confederate statue, and they identified themselves as patriots, confederates, alt-right, white nationalists, neo-nazis etc.

    When you look at the rally against the removal of the confederate statue, and see those guys marching with their torches, where do you fall on a spectrum of "Yeah! Those are my people!" through to "OMG, it's the incarnation of evil and is the modern KKK!"?
    12
    NA - I have zero interest in the topic. I don't even know why I clicked on this thread.
    0.00%
    0
    Strongly Support - I support their cause, I'd march with them if I could.
    0.00%
    0
    Support - On the whole I more agree with them than disagree with them.
    25.00%
    3
    Neutral - I have deeply mixed feelings on the subject.
    16.67%
    2
    Against - On the whole I oppose them. I align more with the counter-protesters.
    16.67%
    2
    Strongly Against - They're domestic terrorists and the modern KKK. Go the counter-protesters!
    41.67%
    5
    Last edited by Starlight; 08-15-2017, 06:19 PM.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

  • #2
    Richard Spencer and his goons are mostly atheist liberals who don't suffer from self loathing like the average white liberal. Other than that they are just as bad as any liberal. The fact that Spencer doesn't like blacks and you+the rest of the leftists here don't like white people there's no real difference between you.

    Nazis are better than liberals but not by much. It's more a matter of pride than morality, because at least the nazis fought men with guns while progressives mostly limit themselves to fighting with unborn fetuses unless they grossly outnumber opponents or wield state power against civilians (see also neocons, a progressive offshoot that practices this philosophy in foreing countries).

    The "vanilla" alt right is a significant improvement over the other groups, although it's difficult to render an opinion because the word itself doesn't connote anything in particular to me other than that it describes people on the right who think the mainstream right is worthless (which I do), but it does hold various (often contradictory) connotations to everybody else.

    David Duke is a con artist and a loser. Probably a fed informant too. Pretty much all of his supporters are dumber than a bag of rocks, which is what you'd have to be to still follow a man with a long, public track record of grift and having sex with his supporters' wives/daughters. Still, I can't really put him on the same moral plane as nazis/liberals because as far as I know he hasn't murdered anybody. Still, the sliminess pours off him like a tsunami. I wouldn't be surprised if he brought the idiots with the nazi flags and klan regalia. To paraphrase an apt description of people like him for tweb sensibilities, he's a crap fingered Midas. Everything he touches turns to crap.

    If I missed anyone and you want my opinion on them feel free to ask.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would say that both Atifa and the muppets marching at Charlottesville are on the extremes edges of their respective sides of the political spectrum, and thus are in fact closer to each other than to either the Left, right or center, and that both should be charged with the same charges (be that domestic terrorism, or whatever)

      So your poll needs an additional option of "both the protesters and counter protesters are morons who should be treated with ridicule and derision."
      Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
      1 Corinthians 16:13

      "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
      -Ben Witherington III

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
        both should be charged with the same charges (be that domestic terrorism, or whatever)
        Only somebody from one side murdered anybody on this occasion... I don't see the case for equivalence in charges.

        (Though of course the murder should only factor into charges for the person responsible.)
        Last edited by KingsGambit; 08-15-2017, 07:03 PM.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          More important than taking polls ... people must recognize the anti-American political forces that were promoting extremism of both the so-called right and the so-called left. The Democrats seem to be the ultimate promoter of this. But I don't know of much effort by Republicans to help Trump fix this.

          If you listened to Trump's meeting with the press, Trump was identifying that instigators were found on both groups of protesters. He is combating a press which only sought to identify neo-Nazis that probably were a minority group among the protesters.

          Comment


          • #6
            I could not vote because I see both of them as strongly anti Americans and racists. I align with neither to any meaningful degree.
            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

            Comment


            • #7
              I voted for Strongly Against. I don't care at all for the Antifa but I happen to agree with them on the particular cause that brought them there - to oppose white nationalism. This has nothing to do with whatever they do outside of the context of this march.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Only somebody from one side murdered anybody on this occasion... I don't see the case for equivalence in charges.

                (Though of course the murder should only factor into charges for the person responsible.)
                The murder has no bearing on the equivalence of criminal behavior. As you admit the murder applies only to the murderer. Leftists have done more than their share of murders and attempted murders.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  The murder has no bearing on the equivalence of criminal behavior. As you admit the murder applies only to the murderer. Leftists have done more than their share of murders and attempted murders.
                  Re-reading Raphael's comment, I think we're just talking past each other. I don't disagree with the thrust of what he's saying.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Only somebody from one side murdered anybody on this occasion... I don't see the case for equivalence in charges.

                    (Though of course the murder should only factor into charges for the person responsible.)
                    It goes without saying that the plonker should be individually charged with murder. But both sides where hoping to push the other to be the one who fired the first shot as it were. Both sides are extremists for their causes. If there are charges for one group, they should be leveled at the other group as well. Both sides are equally guilty of trying to incite violence from the other side. (and I am in favour of both sides being charged and being held equally responsible)
                    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                    1 Corinthians 16:13

                    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                    -Ben Witherington III

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "people on both sides were there to incite violence"? There were people there on either side with the goal of simply protesting. They shouldn't be charged with anything just because other people chose to escalate it to violence. (I've heard of cases where Christians preaching the gospel have been charged with disturbing the peace because other people didn't like the message and lashed out, so this could be a dangerous slippery slope.)
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                        So your poll needs an additional option of "both the protesters and counter protesters are morons who should be treated with ridicule and derision."
                        That's what the neutral option was for.

                        Though I am more interested in this thread with regard to agreement with the values and ideology that underlie that of the protesters. The poll was poorly phrased in that regard I guess. Generally I am against the very notion of 'counter-protesters' in any circumstances as I think it's generally not a good strategy and inflames a situation.

                        What I am more interested in hearing about is the level of support from TWebbers towards the general ideas that the protesters were there to support and endorse rather than people's opinions of the specific people who were there protesting or their specific tactics.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "people on both sides were there to incite violence"? There were people there on either side with the goal of simply protesting. They shouldn't be charged with anything just because other people chose to escalate it to violence. (I've heard of cases where Christians preaching the gospel have been charged with disturbing the peace because other people didn't like the message and lashed out, so this could be a dangerous slippery slope.)
                          I think it is fair to say that at any protest, there are innocent bystanders (both left right and center).

                          I don't think any members of Antifa count as being innocent bystanders , but there were definitely people there who disagreed with the Nazi march, who are nothing to do with Antifa who would be innocent bystanders on the left.
                          Likewise I don't think any of the Nazi bunch count as being innocent bystanders, but there were definitely people there who want the statues to remain who are nothing to do with the Nazi bunch who would be innocent bystanders on the right.

                          But Antifa and the Nazi bunch, they were definitely agitating for the other side to be the first resort to violence (and in this situation the Nazi bunch blinked first).
                          Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                          1 Corinthians 16:13

                          "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                          -Ben Witherington III

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post

                            What I am more interested in hearing about is the level of support from TWebbers towards the general ideas that the protesters were there to support and endorse rather than people's opinions of the specific people who were there protesting or their specific tactics.
                            In this case, it's pretty clear - the pro-statue protestors were there specifically to promote their odious ideology. The stated goal was "unite the right" - under the banner of white nationalism. The counterprotestors were there pretty much to speak up against that and not so much there about their other ideological goals.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              What I am more interested in hearing about is the level of support from TWebbers towards the general ideas that the protesters were there to support and endorse rather than people's opinions of the specific people who were there protesting or their specific tactics.
                              Well I fully support the goal to keep the statue where it is.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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