Originally posted by seer
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Poll on Charlottesville march and support for views
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"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIn this case, it's pretty clear - the pro-statue protestors were there specifically to promote their odious ideology. The stated goal was "unite the right" - under the banner of white nationalism. The counterprotestors were there pretty much to speak up against that and not so much there about their other ideological goals."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIn this case, it's pretty clear - the pro-statue protestors were there specifically to promote their odious ideology. The stated goal was "unite the right" - under the banner of white nationalism. The counterprotestors were there pretty much to speak up against that and not so much there about their other ideological goals.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostThat's what the neutral option was for.
Though I am more interested in this thread with regard to agreement with the values and ideology that underlie that of the protesters. The poll was poorly phrased in that regard I guess. Generally I am against the very notion of 'counter-protesters' in any circumstances as I think it's generally not a good strategy and inflames a situation.
What I am more interested in hearing about is the level of support from TWebbers towards the general ideas that the protesters were there to support and endorse rather than people's opinions of the specific people who were there protesting or their specific tactics.
It is possible to celebrate their bravery while objecting to their cause.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostBut, but, but... seer told me one of the counter-protesters had a communist flag, which can't possibly be them trolling the neo-Nazis who were carrying Nazi flags and must mean the counter-protesters all embrace all aspects of communism and also hate America and everything it stands for.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostFor what it's worth, I don't think the statues should be removed. The reasons for the American civil war was more complex than just being about slavery and a number of men on both sides sides committed acts of heroism and a number did the opposite.
It is possible to celebrate their bravery while objecting to their cause.
The "Neutral" option does not express my opinion at all. Both sides are stark raving nutters, and my feelings are not conflicted a whit.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWhen you look at the rally against the removal of the confederate statue, and see those guys marching with their torches, where do you fall on a spectrum of "Yeah! Those are my people!" through to "OMG, it's the incarnation of evil and is the modern KKK!"?
Only surprising thing is that only one person died (what with so many guns).Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostBut both sides where hoping to push the other to be the one who fired the first shot as it were."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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I strongly oppose white nationalism, and I think that the tactics used by both the "antifas" and white nationalists are unacceptable. That being said, I have some reservations about removing Confederate statues on the grounds that they're currently being removed on.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostPutting aside the violence, I'm interested in getting a feel for where TWebbers fall on the spectrum of support for the "Unite the Right" rally that took place in Charlottesville recently where the main march was a group of people upset by the removal of the confederate statue, and they identified themselves as patriots, confederates, alt-right, white nationalists, neo-nazis etc.
When you look at the rally against the removal of the confederate statue, and see those guys marching with their torches, where do you fall on a spectrum of "Yeah! Those are my people!" through to "OMG, it's the incarnation of evil and is the modern KKK!"?Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostI could not vote because I see both of them as strongly anti Americans and racists. I align with neither to any meaningful degree.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostThat's what the neutral option was for.Last edited by Mountain Man; 08-16-2017, 08:44 AM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI would say that both Atifa and the muppets marching at Charlottesville are on the extremes edges of their respective sides of the political spectrum, and thus are in fact closer to each other than to either the Left, right or center, and that both should be charged with the same charges (be that domestic terrorism, or whatever)
So your poll needs an additional option of "both the protesters and counter protesters are morons who should be treated with ridicule and derision."
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostOnly somebody from one side murdered anybody on this occasion... I don't see the case for equivalence in charges.
(Though of course the murder should only factor into charges for the person responsible.)
The white supremacists went there looking for a fight. Yes. But so did the BLM and Antifa. They came with bottles and bats and were just as bent on starting a fight as the white supremacists were. And they got it.
Yes, individuals should be charged for their individual crimes they are responsible for, but ALL of the groups, left and right were to blame for the violence there. And the police for standing back and not doing a damn thing to prevent it when they could.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostWouldn't it be more accurate to say "people on both sides were there to incite violence"? There were people there on either side with the goal of simply protesting. They shouldn't be charged with anything just because other people chose to escalate it to violence. (I've heard of cases where Christians preaching the gospel have been charged with disturbing the peace because other people didn't like the message and lashed out, so this could be a dangerous slippery slope.)
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