Robert E. Lee

[tabibito]

Yes, we know, he was a traitor to his country. And I don't understand the claim that he was against slavery when he fought in court to keep his own slaves under bondage even though his Father in law promised them their freedom.

And the later admission that he had been wrong, and the manumission he gave to his slaves (prior to the war) counts for nothing?
Even if it does - there's a problem with embracing victim-hood:

[Terraceth]

Something else you may not know.

Lincoln offered Lee command of the Union army because he was so well respected. The only reason Lee turned it down was because of his loyalty to Virginia and could not bring himself to fight against his native state.

Which is rather ironic, because if he had taken the job as commander of the Union army, Virginia probably would've ended up better off than it did in real history. With the North having a better general at the start of the war, and the South lacking Lee's leadership, the war likely would have been won by the Union more quickly, with fewer casualties, and with less harm to Virginia.

The irony doesn't even end there. He ended up fighting against Virginia anyway, as the western part of Virginia split off during the Civil War to remain part of the Union (becoming the state of West Virginia). Granted, he wasn't from that part of Virginia so it likely meant less to him than the part that seceded, but it did mean he fought against a part of Virginia during the Civil War.

[Darth Executor]

Yes, we know, he was a traitor to his country.

Beats being a traitor to his local community.

[Tassman]

He was not a traitor and he changed his mind about slavery. He freed them 10 years before the war started, stated publicly that slavery was evil, and even paid to send any of his slaves who wanted to go to Liberia, a country created just for freed slaves.

Historical accuracy is not the forte of the ignorant Supremacist mob. Just look at them, do they look educated to you? Of course not...half of them are probably illiterate. They are merely using the Confederate monuments as a convenient focus to propagate their white supremacy.

[Sparko]

Historical accuracy is not the forte of the ignorant Supremacist mob. Just look at them, do they look educated to you? Of course not...half of them are probably illiterate. They are merely using the Confederate monuments as a convenient focus to propagate their white supremacy.

Let's see how the college educated liberals are with history:

[One Bad Pig]

Historical accuracy is not the forte of the ignorant Supremacist mob. Just look at them, do they look educated to you? Of course not...half of them are probably illiterate.

Judging by appearances is obviously not your forte. I went to high school with a bunch of white supremacists (Jason Kessler, who organized the Charlottesville protest, doesn't seem to have fallen far from the family tree); they weren't illiterate, just prejudiced.

They are merely using the Confederate monuments as a convenient focus to propagate their white supremacy.

Agreed. Before this sudden push to remove them, I doubt they gave them much notice.

[One Bad Pig]

Source: The Progressive War Against the Dead

Much of the country has demanded the elimination of references to, and images of, people of the past -- from Christopher Columbus to Robert E. Lee -- who do not meet our evolving standards of probity....


But cleansing the past is a dangerous business. The wide liberal search for more enemies of the past may soon take progressives down hypocritical pathways they would prefer not to walk.

In the present climate of auditing the past, it is inevitable that Margaret Sanger's Planned Parenthood will have to be disassociated from its founder. Sanger was an unapologetic racist and eugenicist who pushed abortion to reduce the non-white population.

Should we ask that Ruth Bader Ginsburg resign from the Supreme Court? Even with the benefit of 21st-century moral sensitivity, Ginsburg still managed to echo Sanger in a racist reference to abortion ("growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of").

Why did we ever mint a Susan B. Anthony dollar? The progressive suffragist once said, "I will cut off this right arm of mine before I will ever work or demand the ballot for the Negro and not the woman."

Liberal icon and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren pushed for the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II while he was California's attorney general.


President Woodrow Wilson ensured that the Armed Forces were not integrated. He also segregated civil service agencies. Why, then, does Princeton University still cling to its Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs? To honor a progressive who did a great deal of harm to African-American causes?

Wilson's progressive racism, dressed up in pseudo-scientific theories, was perhaps more pernicious than that of the old tribal racists of the South, given that it was not regionally centered and was professed to be fact-based and ecumenical, with the power of the presidency behind it.

In the current logic, Klan membership certainly should be a disqualifier of public commemoration. Why are there public buildings and roads still dedicated to the late Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, former "exalted cyclops" of his local Klan affiliate, who reportedly never shook his disgusting lifelong habit of using the N-word?

Why is 20th century Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black, once a Klansman, still honored as a progressive hero?

So, what are the proper rules of exemption for progressives when waging war against the dead?

Do they tally up the dead's good and bad behaviors to see if someone makes the 51 percent "good progressive" cutoff that exempts him? Or do some reactionary sins cancel out all the progressive good -- at least in the eyes of self-styled moral superiors to those hapless Neanderthals who came before us?

Are the supposedly oppressed exempt from charges of oppression?

Farm-labor icon Cesar Chavez once sent union thugs to the border to physically bar U.S. entry to undocumented Mexican immigrants, whom he derided as "wetbacks" in a fashion that would today surely earn Chavez progressive ostracism as a xenophobe.

Link

© Copyright Original Source

Looks like the Kennedys are out, too:

Source: Why Stop at Reassessing Confederate Monuments?

As we rewrite history and remove Confederate monuments deemed "offensive" when viewed through the prism of contemporary standards of morality, reasonable people ask: Where does one draw the line? The left, for example, reveres the Kennedy brothers, John, Robert and Edward. But if evaluated by today's standards of social justice, would these left-wing icons hold up?

In Sen. Ted Kennedy's case, how does the monument-removing left feel about the kiss Kennedy blew Gov. George Wallace a mere 10 years after Wallace delivered what became perhaps that era's most infamous defense of segregation? At Wallace's request, Kennedy spoke in Alabama at a 1973 Fourth of July "Spirit of America" rally honoring Wallace in 1973.

Just 10 years earlier, Wallace defended "Jim Crow," or legal segregation, by shouting, "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever," and attempted to prevent blacks from attending the University of Alabama by blocking a campus doorway. Yet at this July 1973 rally, where Wallace received a "Patriotism Award," guest speaker Kennedy praised Wallace as a believer in the "true spirit of America," who supported the right of everyone to "speak his mind and be heard." Kennedy also talked about the things the two men had in common, including that they "don't corrupt," "don't malign" and "don't abuse" the people's trust.

John F. Kennedy won a razor-thin race in 1960. The black vote was crucial. Just four years earlier, nearly 40 percent of blacks voted Republican. Kennedy got 68 percent of the black vote, thanks in part to the tireless efforts of entertainer Sammy Davis Jr. The brilliant singer/actor/dancer/musician/comedian Davis campaigned hard for Kennedy, and even postponed his wedding to a white actress until after the election to avoid costing votes from those who disapproved of interracial marriages. But after Kennedy got elected, and Davis then got married, the President-elect disinvited him from performing at Kennedy's inaugural gala....

This brings us to Robert Kennedy. FBI head J. Edgar Hoover sought and received permission to wiretap Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. The person granting him permission? Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy.

Some historians argue that Kennedy agreed to the wiretap because he feared Hoover possessed scandalous files on the Kennedy brothers. But other historians say Robert Kennedy sincerely believed, as Hoover did, that communists infiltrated King's civil rights team.

"I asked the FBI to make an intensive investigation of Martin Luther King," Robert Kennedy later told journalist Anthony Lewis. "We never wanted to get close to him just because of these contacts and connections that he had, which we felt were damaging to the civil rights movement and because we were so intimately involved in the struggle for civil rights, it also damaged us."

Link

© Copyright Original Source

...not that blacks, those putatively so distressed by Confederate statues, seem to care overmuch in general. From the second link:

Source: Larry Elder

Is removing Confederate statues a priority issue among blacks, the group presumably most offended by the monuments? Not really. A new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll shows that more blacks want the monuments to stay than want them removed — 44 percent to 40 percent, respectively. Add in the 16 percent who are "unsure" and a majority of blacks either want the statues to stay or don't seem to care much one way or the other. Also, if Confederate statues inflict such misery on the psyche of blacks, why do tests repeatedly show that blacks have higher self-esteem than whites?

Charles Barkley, the ex-basketball star turned television analyst, said he's "always ignored" Confederate statues. He said: "I'm 54 years old. I've never thought about those statues a day in my life. I think if you ask most black people, to be honest, they ain't thought a day in their life about those stupid statues. ... What we as black people need to do ... we need to worry about getting our education. We need to stop killing each other. We need to try to find a way to have more economic opportunity. Those things are important and significant."

© Copyright Original Source

[Darth Executor]

Historical accuracy is not the forte of the ignorant Supremacist mob. Just look at them, do they look educated to you? Of course not...half of them are probably illiterate. They are merely using the Confederate monuments as a convenient focus to propagate their white supremacy.

Conversely, the people trying to remove the statues want them removed because they are statues of white people and aren't more versed in history than the average white supremacist.

[Starlight]

Let's see how the college educated liberals are with history:

Videos like that always make me wonder to what extent what we're being shown is selective - did they interview more students and only show the ones who gave wrong answers, did their method of choosing students to interview select for ignorant students?

But it does speak volumes about the poor quality of schooling in Texas.

I think there are some accurate comments on the Youtube vid:

-I think you would get more right answers if you went to a foreign country and asked them about our history than by asking young people who were born here.

-Canadian, can confirm. Got pretty much all of these lol. Not that it's much to brag about 'cause those were some simple... questions.

-it's mostly just because they're in Texas lol.

-This is true... I myself live in the California.. The schools here are mostly secular and alright compared to how people are educated elsewhere throughout the US. Many high schools are becoming over crowded and kids aren't receiving enough education at an individual level.. There are also many christian schools and universities where their education involves prayer and bible study. There are educational systems that are trying to rewrite history and hold out on a lot of science. You really have to go to a secular college of some sort to really get a good education here. Many are already too stupid to keep up at a university level because of their prior education.

-I've been to Texas and people there were dumber than...

-Im Dutch and i knew almost all answers.

- English here and I knew the answers to all the questions...those questions were incredibly easy.

-Most British youngsters (and ESPECIALLY higher education students) would know all these

-I'm from Belgium and I knew all the answers

-Yet another person somehow trying to turn this into an attack on liberals, despite the fact that the school (and by rational extension most of its students) are a product of a conservative Texas educational system...

Next time Sparko you're tempted to try and pretend to yourself that the non-Americans on this forum aren't allowed to know more about America than the Americans here, remember this video.

[lilpixieofterror]

Videos like that always make me wonder to what extent what we're being shown is selective - did they interview more students and only show the ones who gave wrong answers, did their method of choosing students to interview select for ignorant students?

But it does speak volumes about the poor quality of schooling in Texas.

I think there are some accurate comments on the Youtube vid:

-I think you would get more right answers if you went to a foreign country and asked them about our history than by asking young people who were born here.

-Canadian, can confirm. Got pretty much all of these lol. Not that it's much to brag about 'cause those were some simple... questions.

-it's mostly just because they're in Texas lol.

-This is true... I myself live in the California.. The schools here are mostly secular and alright compared to how people are educated elsewhere throughout the US. Many high schools are becoming over crowded and kids aren't receiving enough education at an individual level.. There are also many christian schools and universities where their education involves prayer and bible study. There are educational systems that are trying to rewrite history and hold out on a lot of science. You really have to go to a secular college of some sort to really get a good education here. Many are already too stupid to keep up at a university level because of their prior education.

-I've been to Texas and people there were dumber than...

-Im Dutch and i knew almost all answers.

- English here and I knew the answers to all the questions...those questions were incredibly easy.

-Most British youngsters (and ESPECIALLY higher education students) would know all these

-I'm from Belgium and I knew all the answers

-Yet another person somehow trying to turn this into an attack on liberals, despite the fact that the school (and by rational extension most of its students) are a product of a conservative Texas educational system...

Next time Sparko you're tempted to try and pretend to yourself that the non-Americans on this forum aren't allowed to know more about America than the Americans here, remember this video.

Got to love how Starlight attempts to refute a video by using personal testimony to refute another personal testimony or smearing an entire state population as being idiots (apparently ignoring similar video projects with the same results), but an increase in historical and civics ignorance is well known and plenty of articles and studies have noticed this. My evidence is this article on this very topic that says:

Last year, PoliTech, a student group at Texas Tech University went around campus and asked three questions: "Who won the Civil War?", "Who is our vice president?" and "Who did we gain our independence from?" Students' answers ranged from "the South?" for the first question to "I have no idea" for all three of them. However, when asked about the show Snookie starred in ("Jersey Shore") or Brad Pitt's marriage history, they answered correctly.

This lack of knowledge in American history is not limited to college students. Studies over the years show Americans of all ages fail to answer the most simple of questions. A 2008 study by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, which surveyed more than 2,500 Americans, found that only half of adults in the country could name the three branches of government. The 2014 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) report found that only 18 percent of 8th graders were proficient or above in U.S. History and only 23 percent in Civics.


Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...QJHjC6qBDpw.99

BTW 18% of Texas Techs student body is from out of state and historical ignorance is quite ramped outside of Texas, so perhaps you should find new excuses because I can actually pass the US citizenship test, can you?

[Tassman]

Conversely, the people trying to remove the statues want them removed because they are statues of white people and aren't more versed in history than the average white supremacist.

The statues should be removed because we don’t, as a rule, erect statues to commemorate bad people and to perpetuate their erroneous beliefs. In this instance the purpose of the Confederate monuments is to celebrate white supremacy.

[Darth Executor]

The statues should be removed because we don’t, as a rule, erect statues to commemorate bad people and to perpetuate their erroneous beliefs. In this instance the purpose of the Confederate monuments is to celebrate white supremacy.

If we didn't erect statues to commemorate bad people we wouldn't erect statues at all. If you want to be consistent then it's time to pull down every statue of that adulterous, communist plagiarist Martin Luther King. Reducing all of those people and their history to "white supremacy" is a typically perverse progressive view of the world. It doesn't matter what they achieved or what they did because they also did something some crazy liberal loser who never achieved anything in his/her life dislike.

[Tassman]

If we didn't erect statues to commemorate bad people we wouldn't erect statues at all. If you want to be consistent then it's time to pull down every statue of that adulterous, communist plagiarist Martin Luther King. Reducing all of those people and their history to "white supremacy" is a typically perverse progressive view of the world. It doesn't matter what they achieved or what they did because they also did something some crazy liberal loser who never achieved anything in his/her life dislike.

Yeah right. Hitler loved his dog Blondi and was passionate about Wagnerian grand opera. So let’s just overlook those other things like incinerating Jews. Clearly the man wasn’t all bad.

[Sparko]

Videos like that always make me wonder to what extent what we're being shown is selective - did they interview more students and only show the ones who gave wrong answers, did their method of choosing students to interview select for ignorant students?

But it does speak volumes about the poor quality of schooling in Texas.

I think there are some accurate comments on the Youtube vid:

-I think you would get more right answers if you went to a foreign country and asked them about our history than by asking young people who were born here.

-Canadian, can confirm. Got pretty much all of these lol. Not that it's much to brag about 'cause those were some simple... questions.

-it's mostly just because they're in Texas lol.

-This is true... I myself live in the California.. The schools here are mostly secular and alright compared to how people are educated elsewhere throughout the US. Many high schools are becoming over crowded and kids aren't receiving enough education at an individual level.. There are also many christian schools and universities where their education involves prayer and bible study. There are educational systems that are trying to rewrite history and hold out on a lot of science. You really have to go to a secular college of some sort to really get a good education here. Many are already too stupid to keep up at a university level because of their prior education.

-I've been to Texas and people there were dumber than...

-Im Dutch and i knew almost all answers.

- English here and I knew the answers to all the questions...those questions were incredibly easy.

-Most British youngsters (and ESPECIALLY higher education students) would know all these

-I'm from Belgium and I knew all the answers

-Yet another person somehow trying to turn this into an attack on liberals, despite the fact that the school (and by rational extension most of its students) are a product of a conservative Texas educational system...

Next time Sparko you're tempted to try and pretend to yourself that the non-Americans on this forum aren't allowed to know more about America than the Americans here, remember this video.

Just because liberal college students are ignorant about American history doesn't mean you are not. It isn't mutually exclusive.

[Sparko]

The statues should be removed because we don’t, as a rule, erect statues to commemorate bad people

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