Robert E. Lee

[Cow Poke]

You will notice I then brought the subject back to Lee and the Confederates saying that not all Confederate soldiers would have been fighting because they desperately wanted to keep slavery, but were most likely fighting because "one has to fight for ones country".

that

[Cow Poke]

It was a very complex and in hindsight fascinating period of American history. Unfortunately, a lot of kids today are being taught that it was about nothing more than whitey fighting to keep the black man down.

Meanwhile, the liberals "keep the black man down" by keeping him "on the plantation", preventing him from having school choice, etc... Instead of treating him like a capable human being, he is treated like a helpless soul who must be "managed".

[Mountain Man]

But from the perspective of citizens of the USA, Washington and Jefferson were nation builders. OTOH Robert E Lee was a nation destroyer, a traitor to the Union and fought to retain slavery. In short, not a man to be honoured.

Look up in the air! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's the point sailing over your head!

[shunyadragon]

Look up in the air! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's the point sailing over your head!

No, it's a bird.

[rogue06]

But from the perspective of citizens of the USA, Washington and Jefferson were nation builders. OTOH Robert E Lee was a nation destroyer, a traitor to the Union and fought to retain slavery. In short, not a man to be honoured.

If the South had won, Lee would be a nation builder and if the American Revolution had failed Washington and Jefferson would have been hung as traitors

[rogue06]

No, it's a bird.

Frog

[Mountain Man]

If the South had won, Lee would be a nation builder and if the American Revolution had failed Washington and Jefferson would have been hung as traitors

Ah, man, I was hoping to watch him struggle to figure that out. You just spoiled my fun.

[Cow Poke]

So why didn't Sparko use them as an example too? Whatever he says about California, he should say about Texas and be consistent.

The California thing is a CURRENT RECURRING event, not old news....

Calexit III? New ballot measure plots another route to California independence

By Jim Miller
August 17, 2017 2:13 PM

First there was Calexit. Then came Calexit II.

On Thursday, people unhappy with California’s place in the United States filed yet another proposed ballot measure that could lead to the Golden State striking out on its own.

This time, the goal is convening a U.S. constitutional convention to overhaul what proponents call a moldy national blueprint out of step with life in California.

The measure says a reworked Constitution should include a provision creating a “clear and reasonable path for states to achieve complete independence from the United States should any state so choose.” No state has become independent under the existing U.S. Constitution....

[Sparko]

After the War, Lee said in 1870:

"I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained."

[Sparko]

I never answered because afaics you never asked. Anyway, yes secession is illegal and any attempt to do so would be treasonous. And btw, R.E. Lee believed it to be treasonous as well.

1. I don't take your word on anything anyone "said" so produce a quote of Lee saying he was a traitor.

2. So you are saying that if California secedes from the Union the whole state would be traitors and we should invade them and hang the leaders? Then tear down any statues or symbolism from the state?

[shunyadragon]

If the South had won, Lee would be a nation builder and if the American Revolution had failed Washington and Jefferson would have been hung as traitors

True! So what!! Washington and Jefferson did not rebel against the King to preserve the institution of slavery.

Nonetheless Jefferson Davis and Lee lost and they are traitors, and probably should have been hung, except for the compassion of the USA government. The union was preserved.

[JimL]

Meanwhile, the liberals "keep the black man down" by keeping him "on the plantation", preventing him from having school choice, etc... Instead of treating him like a capable human being, he is treated like a helpless soul who must be "managed".

CP obviously doesn't reconize a racist argument/talking point when he repeats it.

[shunyadragon]

After the War, Lee said in 1870:

"I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained."

More than a little late after leading the Confederate army in the bloodiest war concerning the loss of young US men in all other wars in US history. The suffering of the loss of between 600,000 to 700,000 killed in action and the uncountable wounded physically and mentally far exceeds any suffering by Lee.

[Sparko]

True! So what!! Washington and Jefferson did not rebel against the King to preserve the institution of slavery.

Nonetheless Jefferson Davis and Lee lost and they are traitors, and probably should have been hung, except for the compassion of the USA government. The union was preserved.

So then all those people who go around chanting "Not My President" and doing everything in their power to impeach the duly elected President and undermine him at every turn are traitors too, right?

[shunyadragon]

So then all those people who go around chanting "Not My President" and doing everything in their power to impeach the duly elected President and undermine him at every turn are traitors too, right?

When things get tough in the stuck in the corner changing the subject get's you nowhere. I do not see any movement to form an army and wage a war of rebellion against Trump.

Again, not the subject of the thread.