Originally posted by Raphael
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Robert E. Lee
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt was a very complex and in hindsight fascinating period of American history. Unfortunately, a lot of kids today are being taught that it was about nothing more than whitey fighting to keep the black man down.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Tassmoron View PostBut from the perspective of citizens of the USA, Washington and Jefferson were nation builders. OTOH Robert E Lee was a nation destroyer, a traitor to the Union and fought to retain slavery. In short, not a man to be honoured.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLook up in the air! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's the point sailing over your head!Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostBut from the perspective of citizens of the USA, Washington and Jefferson were nation builders. OTOH Robert E Lee was a nation destroyer, a traitor to the Union and fought to retain slavery. In short, not a man to be honoured.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIf the South had won, Lee would be a nation builder and if the American Revolution had failed Washington and Jefferson would have been hung as traitorsSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Sea of red View PostSo why didn't Sparko use them as an example too? Whatever he says about California, he should say about Texas and be consistent.
Calexit III? New ballot measure plots another route to California independence
By Jim Miller
August 17, 2017 2:13 PM
First there was Calexit. Then came Calexit II.
On Thursday, people unhappy with California’s place in the United States filed yet another proposed ballot measure that could lead to the Golden State striking out on its own.
This time, the goal is convening a U.S. constitutional convention to overhaul what proponents call a moldy national blueprint out of step with life in California.
The measure says a reworked Constitution should include a provision creating a “clear and reasonable path for states to achieve complete independence from the United States should any state so choose.” No state has become independent under the existing U.S. Constitution....The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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After the War, Lee said in 1870:
"I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained."
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI never answered because afaics you never asked. Anyway, yes secession is illegal and any attempt to do so would be treasonous. And btw, R.E. Lee believed it to be treasonous as well.
2. So you are saying that if California secedes from the Union the whole state would be traitors and we should invade them and hang the leaders? Then tear down any statues or symbolism from the state?
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIf the South had won, Lee would be a nation builder and if the American Revolution had failed Washington and Jefferson would have been hung as traitors
Nonetheless Jefferson Davis and Lee lost and they are traitors, and probably should have been hung, except for the compassion of the USA government. The union was preserved.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMeanwhile, the liberals "keep the black man down" by keeping him "on the plantation", preventing him from having school choice, etc... Instead of treating him like a capable human being, he is treated like a helpless soul who must be "managed".
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAfter the War, Lee said in 1870:
"I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained."Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostTrue! So what!! Washington and Jefferson did not rebel against the King to preserve the institution of slavery.
Nonetheless Jefferson Davis and Lee lost and they are traitors, and probably should have been hung, except for the compassion of the USA government. The union was preserved.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo then all those people who go around chanting "Not My President" and doing everything in their power to impeach the duly elected President and undermine him at every turn are traitors too, right?
Again, not the subject of the thread.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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