Robert E. Lee

[Sparko]

And where are you getting this from, did you see it on tweb? The Civil War broke out in April of 1861, Lee freed his slaves in 1862 but only after fighting in court to keep them under his bondage indefinitely even though his father in law who was their original "master" promised them their freedom.

I posted links from documents at the time, one even from one of Lee's former slaves, saying he not only released his slaves 10 years before the war but actually paid for any who wanted to move to Liberia.

here is a letter from one of his former slaves to his wife after they moved to Liberia:

Letter from Mrs. Burke*
Before the Civil War, Robert E. Lee freed his slaves and paid for the passage of many to Liberia. The following letter was written by one of these emigrants to Lee's wife, Martha Custis Lee, some time between 1853 and 1859.

My Dear Madam -- William has written you quite a long letter, yet I thought I could not let this opportunity pass without writing you a few lines to inform you something in regard to myself and family.

I am at this time, and nearly at all times, in the enjoyment of most excellent health. My children are as fat as pigs: Granderson is nearly as broad as he is long; Cornelia is not tall for her age, but is quite stout; Alexander has begun to grow a little, though he is quite small for his age. They are all going to school, and seem to be learning quite fast. Little Martha does not go to day school, but is very fond of going to Sunday school; she can say some of her A, B, C's; she has got entirely over all of her sickness, and is now fat and growing very fast.

You could hardly believe how cool it is in Africa -- it is equal to the coolest October nights and mornings in America; we can hardly keep warm in bed at night.

In the morning I get up early to milk my cow, feed my chickens &c. The last time I churned I had to put warm water in the churn to make the butter come.

I have thought and dreamt much about you lately. I hope you have got over your rheumatism, and the many troubles of which you spoke in your last letter.

Please remember me particularly to all of your children, and to Mr. Lee. I often think of them all. Please give my love to Mary Ann, and tell her for me that she must try and behave herself, that it will be for her good in the end. When you write please let me know something about Catharine and Agnes. Remember me kindly to Aunt Elleanor; tell her that I love Africa, and would not exchange it for America. What has become of Julian? When you write, please tell me all you know about father; he never will write to me. I would write more, but have no room.

Yours humbly,
Rosebell Burke
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnec...ry/voices.html

]

yeah sounds like the slaves really were mistreated and hated the Lees huh?


I have backed up every claim with actual source of people who were there at the time. all you do is keep repeating lies with no sources.

[JimL]

Not a lot of Civil War veterans in 1960.

Yep, nearly 100 years after the fact, during black peoples fight for civil rights, the south "all of a sudden" decided to honor their Civil War veterans who fought to deny blacks their freedom. Just a coincidence I guess.

[JimL]

I posted links from documents at the time, one even from one of Lee's former slaves, saying he not only released his slaves 10 years before the war but actually paid for any who wanted to move to Liberia.

here is a letter from one of his former slaves to his wife after they moved to Liberia:

Letter from Mrs. Burke*
Before the Civil War, Robert E. Lee freed his slaves and paid for the passage of many to Liberia. The following letter was written by one of these emigrants to Lee's wife, Martha Custis Lee, some time between 1853 and 1859.

My Dear Madam -- William has written you quite a long letter, yet I thought I could not let this opportunity pass without writing you a few lines to inform you something in regard to myself and family.

I am at this time, and nearly at all times, in the enjoyment of most excellent health. My children are as fat as pigs: Granderson is nearly as broad as he is long; Cornelia is not tall for her age, but is quite stout; Alexander has begun to grow a little, though he is quite small for his age. They are all going to school, and seem to be learning quite fast. Little Martha does not go to day school, but is very fond of going to Sunday school; she can say some of her A, B, C's; she has got entirely over all of her sickness, and is now fat and growing very fast.

You could hardly believe how cool it is in Africa -- it is equal to the coolest October nights and mornings in America; we can hardly keep warm in bed at night.

In the morning I get up early to milk my cow, feed my chickens &c. The last time I churned I had to put warm water in the churn to make the butter come.

I have thought and dreamt much about you lately. I hope you have got over your rheumatism, and the many troubles of which you spoke in your last letter.

Please remember me particularly to all of your children, and to Mr. Lee. I often think of them all. Please give my love to Mary Ann, and tell her for me that she must try and behave herself, that it will be for her good in the end. When you write please let me know something about Catharine and Agnes. Remember me kindly to Aunt Elleanor; tell her that I love Africa, and would not exchange it for America. What has become of Julian? When you write, please tell me all you know about father; he never will write to me. I would write more, but have no room.

Yours humbly,
Rosebell Burke
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnec...ry/voices.html

]

yeah sounds like the slaves really were mistreated and hated the Lees huh?


I have backed up every claim with actual source of people who were there at the time. all you do is keep repeating lies with no sources.

No you haven't, you implied that R.E. Lee freed all his slaves 10 years before the Civil War and that is an absolute falsehood. Lee didn't free all his slaves until 1862, and then only because he was under court order to do so. Yes, they freed some of their slaves prior to that who had wished to return to their homeland, to Liberia, but he didn't free all his slaves. And no one is saying that Lee was an evil "master" relatively speaking, we're just saying that he was a slave owner, supported the institution of slavery, and was treasonous in leading a war of insurrection in support of it.

[Sparko]

No you haven't, you implied that R.E. Lee freed all his slaves 10 years before the Civil War and that is an absolute falsehood. Lee didn't free all his slaves until 1862, and then only because he was under court order to do so. Yes, they freed some of their slaves prior to that who had wished to return to their homeland, to Liberia, but he didn't free all his slaves. And no one is saying that Lee was an evil "master" relatively speaking, we're just saying that he was a slave owner, supported the institution of slavery, and was treasonous in leading a war of insurrection in support of it.

Sources Jim


And Liberia wasn't their homeland it was a country created for free slaves

[Sparko]

I will do JimL's work for him.

Lee freed his personal slaves in 1852 but most remained on his property until after the war was over, as I stated earlier with citations. In 1857 he inherited his father-in-laws slaves who apparently got them from ... George Washington. His father-in-law said that if the estate was in good order to free the slaves upon his death, or at the latest within 5 years. The estate was not in order and Lee did go to court to extend the release date to 5 years and then freed those slaves too.

https://americancivilwar.com/authors...ly-Slaves.html

[Tassman]

I will do JimL's work for him.

Lee freed his personal slaves in 1852 but most remained on his property until after the war was over, as I stated earlier with citations. In 1857 he inherited his father-in-laws slaves who apparently got them from ... George Washington. His father-in-law said that if the estate was in good order to free the slaves upon his death, or at the latest within 5 years. The estate was not in order and Lee did go to court to extend the release date to 5 years and then freed those slaves too.

https://americancivilwar.com/authors...ly-Slaves.html

The jaw-dropping event in Charlottesville showed the Trump supporters storming the streets of the city with Tiki torches while giving Nazi salutes as they shouted ‘Blood and soil’ (a Nazi Germany era slogan) and ‘Jews will not replace us!’ Regardless what sort of nice guy you try to make Robert E Lee out to be, it was nevertheless at his statue that this fascist mob assembled. Perhaps they hadn’t heard about his better qualities. <sarcasm>

[Sparko]

Abraham Lincoln didn't care about ending slavery, he just wanted to preserve the Union. If he could have done it by keeping slavery, he would have done so. This imaginary "The North was good and wanted to end slavery and the South was evil and wanted to keep slavery" is nonsense.


"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."
-- Abraham Lincoln, Letter to Horace Greely.

[Sparko]

Democrats, Here is what your Jimmy Carter did as President:


Restoration of Citizenship Rights to Jefferson F. Davis Statement on Signing S. J. Res. 16 into Law.
October 17, 1978
Public Papers of the Presidents
Jimmy Carter
1978: Book II

The American Presidency Project

In posthumously restoring the full rights of citizenship to Jefferson Davis, the Congress officially completes the long process of reconciliation that has reunited our people following the tragic conflict between the States. Earlier, he was specifically exempted form resolutions restoring the rights of other officials in the Confederacy. He had served the United States long and honorably as a soldier, Member of the U.S. House and Senate, and as Secretary of War. General Robert E. Lee's citizenship was restored in 1976. It is fitting that Jefferson Davis should no longer be singled out for punishment.

Our Nation needs to clear away the guilts and enmities and recriminations of the past, to finally set at rest the divisions that threatened to destroy our Nation and to discredit the principles on which it was founded. Our people need to turn their attention to the important tasks that still lie before us in establishing those principles for all people.
Note: As enacted S.J. Res. 16 is Public Law 95-466, approved October 17. Citation: Jimmy Carter: "Restoration of Citizenship Rights to Jefferson F. Davis Statement on Signing S. J. Res. 16 into Law. ," October 17, 1978. Online by Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29993.

[Bill the Cat]

Yep, nearly 100 years after the fact, during black peoples fight for civil rights, the south "all of a sudden" decided to honor their Civil War veterans who fought to deny blacks their freedom. Just a coincidence I guess.

Freed blacks owned slaves too Jim. And several free blacks were affluent businesspeople in the South. That's an inconvenient truth your side ignores.

[JimL]

Democrats, Here is what your Jimmy Carter did as President:


Restoration of Citizenship Rights to Jefferson F. Davis Statement on Signing S. J. Res. 16 into Law.
October 17, 1978
Public Papers of the Presidents
Jimmy Carter
1978: Book II

The American Presidency Project

In posthumously restoring the full rights of citizenship to Jefferson Davis, the Congress officially completes the long process of reconciliation that has reunited our people following the tragic conflict between the States. Earlier, he was specifically exempted form resolutions restoring the rights of other officials in the Confederacy. He had served the United States long and honorably as a soldier, Member of the U.S. House and Senate, and as Secretary of War. General Robert E. Lee's citizenship was restored in 1976. It is fitting that Jefferson Davis should no longer be singled out for punishment.

Our Nation needs to clear away the guilts and enmities and recriminations of the past, to finally set at rest the divisions that threatened to destroy our Nation and to discredit the principles on which it was founded. Our people need to turn their attention to the important tasks that still lie before us in establishing those principles for all people.
Note: As enacted S.J. Res. 16 is Public Law 95-466, approved October 17. Citation: Jimmy Carter: "Restoration of Citizenship Rights to Jefferson F. Davis Statement on Signing S. J. Res. 16 into Law. ," October 17, 1978. Online by Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=29993.

Jefferson Davis and Lee were traitors, that was on them, and posthumously restoring their citizenship isn't going to change that. But thats besides the point, restoring their citizenship doesn't mean we should memorialize them as patriotic heros of the U.S., they chose to secede over the issue of slavery. They're lucky they weren't executed.

[JimL]

Freed blacks owned slaves too Jim. And several free blacks were affluent businesspeople in the South. That's an inconvenient truth your side ignores.

Yeah, and your point being what?

[lilpixieofterror]

Yeah, and your point being what?

Don't remember when you tried to wash away Irish being treated badly by saying some Irish owned slaves? Well, since some blacks owned slaves, that means we could wash away all bad treatment of blacks, right?

[Sparko]

Jefferson Davis and Lee were traitors, that was on them, and posthumously restoring their citizenship isn't going to change that. But thats besides the point, restoring their citizenship doesn't mean we should memorialize them as patriotic heros of the U.S., they chose to secede over the issue of slavery. They're lucky they weren't executed.

You are the one whining about "celebrating and honoring" these guys with Statues, yet one of your liberal Presidents and Congress actually honored them by restoring their citizenship! and said, "Our Nation needs to clear away the guilts and enmities and recriminations of the past, to finally set at rest the divisions that threatened to destroy our Nation and to discredit the principles on which it was founded. Our people need to turn their attention to the important tasks that still lie before us in establishing those principles for all people."

That's a heck of a lot worse than putting up a damn statue!

[Sparko]

Yeah, and your point being what?

That you keep harping on the statues and hand-waving away all the evidence that shows the statues don't matter, that the North was as bad as the South, that Lincoln didn't care about slavery, that Lee wasn't a slave owner during the war, that Jimmy Carter honored Lee and Jackson in a congressional proclamation, and on and on.

When you ignore all the inconvenient facts and harp on the same twisted claims despite being told how wrong you are, you lose all credibility. You are a nutter.