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This is what fascism looks like

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  • #46
    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Probably because neonazis have no real power beyond filling headlines while people passing laws have real power over people's lives. Now when Neonazis start getting some actual power beyond protest marches, that are condemned by left and the right, we'll talk. Besides, the Nazis didn't jump straight into death camps, but spent years gradually building up to the holocaust. The road to hell is a gradual slide, not a walk off a steep cliff.
    Which is why I said liberals are a greater danger to the US than the neo-nazis.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Jim do you think it is a good thing to prevent people from speaking under the thread of violence or by violence?
      Only if they are conservative.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
        Fascism is often used as a rhetorical bludgeon, no need to take it so literally.
        This is true. The left and antifa use is as an insult and don't even know what it means.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Jim do you think it is a good thing to prevent people from speaking under the thread of violence or by violence?
          Nope, nice try though seer!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Nope, nice try though seer!
            Good, so you won't use the fascist tactics that much of the left is using...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              So... it's fascist, but it's not fascism? Is that what you're saying?
              Suppression of speech is an element of fascism but that doesn't make this fascism (because it lacks a lot of critical elements of fascism and is in fact the opposite of fascism in some ways). It's like claiming that Germany and Italy were governed by Sharia law in World War II because they shared a dislike of homosexuals.
              Last edited by Terraceth; 08-18-2017, 05:28 PM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                Suppression of speech is an element of fascism but that doesn't make this fascism (because it lacks a lot of critical elements of fascism and is in fact the opposite of fascism in some ways). It's like claiming that Germany and Italy were governed by Sharia law in World War II because they shared a dislike of homosexuals.

                If antifa, (anti-fascist) can protest Trump supporters and conservatives who they label fascist we can turn it on them - especially since they are the ones attempting to prevent speech. I'm not giving them the rhetorical high ground.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  If antifa, (anti-fascist) can protest Trump supporters and conservatives who they label fascist we can turn it on them - especially since they are the ones attempting to prevent speech. I'm not giving them the rhetorical high ground.
                  Yeah, and I don't like antifa either because they have no clue what fascism is (well, okay, there's plenty of other reasons but for an "anti-fascist" group they certainly seem clueless about what fascism actually is).

                  What antifa complains about (and ironically itself engages in) is authoritarianism, not fascism.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                    Yeah, and I don't like antifa either because they have no clue what fascism is (well, okay, there's plenty of other reasons but for an "anti-fascist" group they certainly seem clueless about what fascism actually is).

                    What antifa complains about (and ironically itself engages in) is authoritarianism, not fascism.
                    I agree, but I'm not giving up the rhetorical fight...
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                      Suppression of speech is an element of fascism but that doesn't make this fascism (because it lacks a lot of critical elements of fascism and is in fact the opposite of fascism in some ways). It's like claiming that Germany and Italy were governed by Sharia law in World War II because they shared a dislike of homosexuals.
                      Regardless of how many hairs you want to split over this, you can't deny that punishing free speech certainly looks like fascism. Whether or not it actually is in a strictly literal sense is beside the point.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        Which is why I said liberals are a greater danger to the US than the neo-nazis.
                        Neonazis seem to only have power on internet message boards and article comment sections. In reality, they have about as much power as your common internet troll, which means almost zilch. On the other hand, those who protest speeches and appearances of those slightly right of them have power across the western world. Which group should I care more about? I see protesting neonazis as a waste of time and they only grab headlines so the media can use them to paint all consertives as cut from the same cloth. That's the only reason anyone cares what a bunch of internet trolls are doing.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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                        • #57
                          When was the last time a liberal speaker had an event cancelled because Neonazis threatened to riot?
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            When was the last time a liberal speaker had an event cancelled because Neonazis threatened to riot?
                            I thought of something even better for this point.

                            Say you own an business and said you were against neonazis. What the worst that could happen? Some trolls might troll your business Facebook page.

                            Say though you were against gay marriage, what is the worst that could happen? You get ran out of business and can't even get hired to be a fry cook at McDonalds.

                            What group should we worry about more?
                            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 08-18-2017, 11:55 PM.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              First Psychic, I have no idea what you mean about the obscenity thing, porn is everywhere. And are you just daft? No one is calling for anyone's death, main stream conservative thought does no such thing. See that is exactly why we don't need people like you or Antifa deciding what speech is acceptable or not. And lets be clear the majority of those who were protesting the speakers I was referencing were privileged white kids. Whether you see it or not Psychic you and people like Antifa and the Communists are on the same path that the Fascists were on in the early days of book burning.
                              There have been some major SCOTUS cases revolving around what speech the government can deem obscene and therefore illegal. Jacobellis v. Ohio, Roth v. United States, Miller v. California... First, these speakers are not explicitly calling for people's death. However, they are advocating policy that will result in death, specifically anti-poor and anti-black policy. Second, it's not fair to accuse people of something that you imagine might happen in the far future.

                              Ok, so your side prevents freedom of speech and you say there is nothing to worry about? Forgive me if I don't trust your judgement on this.
                              All sides outside of anarchists prevent freedom of speech in some way.

                              It certainly is. I know a number of people who started out dirt poor and are now very well off. They did this mostly in the construction trades. Took a risk, started their own businesses and worked 14 hours a day in the early years. The US is still one of the top countries for Economic Mobility: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...-scott-winship.
                              The US has been experiencing stagnating wages for decades while the wealthy continue to get wealthier. An plutocracy cannot simultaneously be a meritocracy.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                what about "free speech" do you not understand? Do you think the first amendment only protects speech you think is "good?"

                                The whole purpose of the first amendment is to protect the speech that you might find offensive. There is no reason to protect speech that everyone agrees with.

                                So yes, if Hitler was an american and wanted to give a public speech, then he is allowed under the first amendment to do so. Just like the KKK is allowed to do so now. You can use your free speech to oppose him. But you are not allowed to stop him from speaking using violence or force. Especially if you are representing the government.
                                There's demonstrably nothing wrong with minutely limiting free speech (the US has done this since its founding) for the good of society. Stopping neonazis from rallying is at the very least just as much a public good as stopping panic when someone yells fire in a crowded theater. The people who sat around while the Nazis built their engine aren't remembered particularly fondly, while the people who were called to action are remembered as heroes. It sounds like you are condemning fascist resistance.

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