Antifa: Promoting peace... through violence!

[Sparko]

That's the major place where Christian anarchists differ from our non-religious political brothers here, because we would agree that fundamentally all y'all need Jesus.

So why "fight" for anarchy if the end result is worse than what we have now?

[Mountain Man]

That's the major place where Christian anarchists differ from our non-religious political brothers here, because we would agree that fundamentally all y'all need Jesus.

"Christian anarchist" doesn't make any sense, because a fundamental doctrine of Christianity is that God is the ultimate authority.

[thewriteranon]

So why "fight" for anarchy if the end result is worse than what we have now?

I'm not "fighting."

Honestly, I don't like talking this stuff because I'm sick of all the grief I get from people. Suffice it to say I agree with Dee Dee in inching toward liberty, focusing on changing hearts and minds, and I don't think it will necessarily result in uncontrollable violence. I'm happy to answer questions about terminology, general attitudes, inspirations, etc., but I'm not the person to talk to about the goals of the ideology itself. Talk to RG.

[thewriteranon]

"Christian anarchist" doesn't make any sense, because a fundamental doctrine of Christianity is that God is the ultimate authority.

Christian anarchists recognize God as the only authority (or else God at the chief authority within the voluntary authority structure of the Church). They get grief enough from non-religious anarchists because of this distinction. Some might prefer the term "voluntaryist" to clarify.

Really, I'm not here to argue for it, just explain some terms and stuff. If I'm going to get grief, I'll just leave tweb.

[Sparko]

I'm not "fighting."

Honestly, I don't like talking this stuff because I'm sick of all the grief I get from people. Suffice it to say I agree with Dee Dee in inching toward liberty, focusing on changing hearts and minds, and I don't think it will necessarily result in uncontrollable violence. I'm happy to answer questions about terminology, general attitudes, inspirations, etc., but I'm not the person to talk to about the goals of the ideology itself. Talk to RG.

sorry.

[Mountain Man]

Christian anarchists recognize God as the only authority (or else God at the chief authority within the voluntary authority structure of the Church).

Which is an oxymoron. "Anarchy", by definition, is the rejection of all authority. Furthermore, if one recognizes the authority of God, which all Christians must, then they must also necessarily recognize that God has established human authorities on earth to serve as his proxy for the purposes of dispensing judgment.

In other words, you can either be a Christian, or you can be an anarchist, but it's literally impossible to be both.

[Rational Gaze]

Lots of anarchists seem to be against private ownership, and while there may be a number of anarcho-capitalists, in my experience, they're the exception, not the rule.

Statelessness without capitalism is a contradiction in terms. Since capitalism is an economic system that lacks central economic planning. Thus, the most logically consistent version of capitalism is anarchism and the most logically consistent form of statelessness is anarcho-capitalism. The only you reason you get self-described 'anarcho-communists', is because anarchism is supposed to be the end goal of communism... but communism eschews private property rights, and so is logically inconsistent with anarchism. Moreover, communism aims to arrive at statelessness via a maximally totalitarian socialist state... which is about as far from statelessness as it is possible to be.

[Rational Gaze]

Which is an oxymoron. "Anarchy", by definition, is the rejection of all authority.

This is merely question begging, not to mention false. Anarchy is the political theory that a community is best organized by the voluntary cooperation of individuals, rather than by a government, which is regarded as being coercive by nature. It is the rejection of the use of violence against non-aggressors.

Furthermore, if one recognizes the authority of God, which all Christians must, then they must also necessarily recognize that God has established human authorities on earth to serve as his proxy for the purposes of dispensing judgment.

This is also question begging. You're fallaciously assuming that, because God allows governments to exist, He necessarily approves of them. The only time in recorded history God actually set up a government at all was when the Israelites demanded a king so that they could be just like the other nations. Samuel was pretty offended, and God said that, in demanding an earthly ruler, the Israelites were rejecting Him, but He acquiesced anyway, since He used the Israelite monarchy for good... kind of like how God is always turning bad things to His own good purposes, i.e. Joseph being sold to slavery, etc. Romans, etc., just command us to be lawful citizens and obey governments insofar as they don't contradict the law of God, but thats a far cry from mandating statism, or insinuating that governments need to exist. I take such commands to follow the law, and not be a political rabble-rouser, or try to overthrow the state. However, the only real authority or government I recognise is God and His Kingdom.

In other words, you can either be a Christian, or you can be an anarchist, but it's literally impossible to be both.

Two fallacious arguments don't make a sound one.

[Rational Gaze]

So why "fight" for anarchy if the end result is worse than what we have now?

Yeah, I don't "fight" for anarchy, either. Because Romans seems pretty clear that trying to overthrow the government is a no-no, and I'm happy to be a lawful citizen and not break any laws just because I think the government shouldn't exist. Most an-caps also prefer to use the term 'voluntarism', since anarchism is often used as a synonym for 'chaos' or rejection of authority per se (rather than a reference to a certain political theory), and also because it tends to be co-opted by commies who don't understand how economics works.

[Y'hoshua]

I'll just leave this here...

nokingbutchrist.jpg

[Mountain Man]

This is merely question begging, not to mention false. Anarchy is the political theory that a community is best organized by the voluntary cooperation of individuals, rather than by a government, which is regarded as being coercive by nature. It is the rejection of the use of violence against non-aggressors.

What? The word "anarchy" literally means "a state of society without government or law; political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control; lack of obedience to an authority". In other words, all things that are antithetical to Christianity.

You're fallaciously assuming that, because God allows governments to exist, He necessarily approves of them.

No, I'm simply pointing out the fact that we are explicitly commanded to obey earthly authority.

Romans 13: "1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience."

One day we all come under the direct rule of God with no intermediaries, but not while we're on earth.

So I say again, the concept of "christian anarchy" is an oxymoron. A Christian can not be an anarchist by definition.

[Mountain Man]

I'll just leave this here...

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You're not pledging allegiance to the flag itself but to what it symbolizes: One nation, under God.

[Sparko]

Yeah, I don't "fight" for anarchy, either. Because Romans seems pretty clear that trying to overthrow the government is a no-no, and I'm happy to be a lawful citizen and not break any laws just because I think the government shouldn't exist. Most an-caps also prefer to use the term 'voluntarism', since anarchism is often used as a synonym for 'chaos' or rejection of authority per se (rather than a reference to a certain political theory), and also because it tends to be co-opted by commies who don't understand how economics works.

I put "fight" in quotes for a reason. I meant to push for, advocate, support.

But my point was that if there were no government like you want, then you would in reality not have a peaceful existence because human nature is not peaceful. It is sinful and greedy. The worst in human society would end up creating chaos and destruction, killing, stealing, doing whatever they wanted because there would be no authority to stop them. It would be like one of those mad max movies. You would end up with people banding together in little tribes with warlords rampaging around the world taking what they wanted. You would not end up with a peaceful society where everyone cooperated. Just look at what goes on in third world countries where the government has fallen. Chaos.

The only way we are going to have a peaceful society where people get along is when Jesus comes back. In the meantime, states and governments are better than chaos.