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Debunked: Socialism has never worked

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  • The liberals are all against fascism and authoritarianism. Except when it happens to be in a socialist country, like Venezuela, or Cuba, or China, or any other socialist/communist country. Then it is fine apparently. And the people just happen to be oppressed and starving because of an unfortunate "dip in oil prices" or some such.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      The liberals are all against fascism and authoritarianism. Except when it happens to be in a socialist country, like Venezuela, or Cuba, or China, or any other socialist/communist country. Then it is fine apparently. And the people just happen to be oppressed and starving because of an unfortunate "dip in oil prices" or some such.
      Leftists against authoritarianism?

      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        Leftists against authoritarianism?

        Apparently, that's what they keep accusing the conservatives and Trump of being while they go around burning cars and throwing hissie-fits when anyone says anything they disagree with.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Apparently, that's what they keep accusing the conservatives and Trump of being while they go around burning cars and throwing hissie-fits when anyone says anything they disagree with.
          Oh I know what they claim. It's a good joke.
          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Apparently, that's what they keep accusing the conservatives and Trump of being while they go around burning cars and throwing hissie-fits when anyone says anything they disagree with.
            Yeah, but that's "DifferentTM".

            Don't ask how; it just is.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              It [Venezuelan Socialism] did well for decades...
              Sure it did. Just ask Leopoldo López



              Letter From a Venezuelan Jail
              By Leopoldo López
              The Wall Street Journal
              December 25, 2014

              I am one of scores of political prisoners locked away because of our words and ideas.

              My country, Venezuela, is on the verge of social and economic collapse. This slow-motion disaster, nearly 15 years in the making, was not initiated by falling oil prices or by mounting debts. It was set in motion by the authoritarian government’s hostility toward human rights and the rule of law and the institutions that protect them.

              I know this on an all-too personal level. I am writing from a military prison, where I have been held since February as a result of speaking out against the government’s actions. I am one of scores of political prisoners in my country who are locked away because of their words and ideas.

              This unjust incarceration has given me a firsthand view of the pervasive abuses—legal, mental and physical—perpetrated by the ruling elite in my country. It has not been a good experience, but it has been an enlightening one.

              My isolation also has given me time to think and reflect on the larger crisis facing my country. It has never been clearer to me that Venezuela’s road to ruin was paved years ago by a movement to dismantle basic human rights and freedoms in the name of an illusory vision of achieving greater good for the masses through the centralization of power.

              When the current ruling party, the United Socialist Party, first took power in 1999, its supporters viewed human rights as a luxury, not a necessity. Large segments of the population were living in poverty, and in need of food, housing and security. Protecting free speech and the separation of powers seemed frivolous. In the name of expediency, these values were compromised and then dismantled entirely.

              The legislature was neutered, allowing the executive to rule by decree without the checks and balances that prevent government from veering off track. The judiciary was made accountable to the ruling party, rendering the constitution and the law meaningless. In an infamous 2009 case, Judge Mary Lourdes Afiuni was imprisoned for ordering the release of a businessman and government critic who had been held for three years in pretrial detention, one year more than allowed under Venezuelan law.

              Meanwhile, political leaders—myself included—were persecuted and imprisoned, stifling the competition of ideas that could have led to better decisions and policies. Independent news organizations were dismantled, seized or driven out of business. The “sunshine that disinfects,” and the scrutiny that motivates good decision-making, no longer benefit our leadership.

              Venezuela’s current president, Nicolás Maduro, has taken this to a terrible new low. Rights are rationed as though they were scarce goods to be traded for other means of subsistence: You may have employment if you give away your free speech. You may have some health benefits if you give away your right to protest.

              Apologists, many from other countries, including the U.S., say these sacrifices were and are for the collective good of the country. Yet the lives of Venezuelans, especially the poor, are worse by every measure. Inflation, at more than 60%, is rampant. Scarcity of basic goods has led to empty shelves and long lines. Violent crime is skyrocketing and the murder rate is the second highest in the world, behind only Honduras. The health-care system is collapsing. And many financial experts are predicting a default on the country’s debts in a matter of months.

              The challenges now facing Venezuela are complex and will require years of work on many fronts. That work must begin with restoring the rights, freedoms and checks and balances that are the proper foundation of civil society.
              The international community has an important role to play—especially our neighbors in Latin America. To remain silent is to be complicit in a disaster that doesn’t just impact Venezuela but could have implications across the hemisphere. Organizations such as the Union of South American Nations (Unasur) and the South American trade bloc Mercosur must come off the sidelines. Countries such as Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru and Argentina must get involved.

              At home, our constitution provides a way forward if we will heed its words. Our proposal is simple but powerful: All rights for all people. Not some rights for some people. No regime should have the power to decide who gets access to which rights. This idea may be taken for granted in other countries, but in my country, Venezuela, it is a dream worth fighting for.
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                [letter...]
                At home, our constitution provides a way forward if we will heed its words. Our proposal is simple but powerful: All rights for all people. Not some rights for some people. No regime should have the power to decide who gets access to which rights. This idea may be taken for granted in other countries, but in my country, Venezuela, it is a dream worth fighting for.[/box]
                Not any more. After the recent sham vote to let Maduro rewrite the constitution.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  The liberals are all against fascism and authoritarianism. Except when it happens to be in a socialist country, like Venezuela, or Cuba, or China, or any other socialist/communist country. Then it is fine apparently. And the people just happen to be oppressed and starving because of an unfortunate "dip in oil prices" or some such.
                  No, it is not fine apparently, what is apparent is that you have no idea what you are talking about when you speak of liberals.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    No, it is not fine apparently, what is apparent is that you have no idea what you are talking about when you speak of liberals.
                    says the guy who regularly puts his foot in his mouth trying to defend liberalism.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      says the guy who regularly puts his foot in his mouth trying to defend liberalism.
                      Bet you can't produce such a quote. I guess thats what you'd call putting your foot in your mouth.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Bet you can't produce such a quote. I guess thats what you'd call putting your foot in your mouth.
                        OK. Tassman was defending a liberal value: Global Warming and argued that no one should question the scientific consensus. We argued that of course they should that is what science is about and how science advances. I made a sarcastic comment that copernicus should not have questioned the scientific consensus and then you chimed in and totally trashed Tassman's initial argument by actually making the very point we made to Tassy:

                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Well who was Capernicus to question the scientific consensus about the solar system?

                        Copernicus was a scientist, unlike most theists, thats what scientists do, they question scientific hypotheses, beliefs.


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          OK. Tassman was defending a liberal value: Global Warming and argued that no one should question the scientific consensus. We argued that of course they should that is what science is about and how science advances. I made a sarcastic comment that copernicus should not have questioned the scientific consensus and then you chimed in and totally trashed Tassman's initial argument by actually making the very point we made to Tassy:




                          Thats how I put my foot in my mouth defending liberalism? Geesh Sparko, can you not even keep track of what your accusation was from one post to the next?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            atheistic Finland

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Thats how I put my foot in my mouth defending liberalism? Geesh Sparko, can you not even keep track of what your accusation was from one post to the next?
                              Yes, yes it is. Am I at all surprised that you're totally blind to your goof? Not in the least. You're nothing if not consistent.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Yes, yes it is. Am I at all surprised that you're totally blind to your goof? Not in the least. You're nothing if not consistent.
                                You're nothing if not a complete moron. Global warming isn't "liberalism" you jackass.

                                Comment

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