Objective Morality (Once More Into The Breach)

[seer]

Out of curiosity, were you raised in a Christian household and/or had significant exposure to Christian concepts/ideas (e.g., Sunday school, church, family traditions, community, etc.)? Or was some/most/all of this fairly new to you? And the Christians you kept running into - were these unusual situations for you - things outside the norm in your experience?

I was raised in a nominal Catholic home, in a largely Catholic neighborhood. My father went to church every week, my mother never did - except for weddings and funerals. I was consciously agnostic by the age of 12. That lasted, like I said, until I was 37. And yes, like I said that summer was very unusual as far as running into Christians. I spent most my life trying to stay away from them. There was another strange thing. I used to watch MTV a lot, the channel up from that had this guy Pat Robertson preaching all the time. I couldn't stand him, but more and more I found myself listening to him...

[carpedm9587]

I was raised in a nominal Catholic home, in a largely Catholic neighborhood. My father went to church every week, my mother never did - except for weddings and funerals. I was consciously agnostic by the age of 12. That lasted, like I said, until I was 37. And yes, like I said that summer was very unusual as far as running into Christians. I spent most my life trying to stay away from them. There was another strange thing. I used to watch MTV a lot, the channel up from that had this guy Pat Robertson preaching all the time. I couldn't stand him, but more and more I found myself listening to him...

What does "consciously agnostic" mean?

And I think I know what you mean about P. Robertson. I often find myself driving in a variety of cities, and I sometimes look for, and listen to, the local religious stations. The effect/impression is analogous to running my tongue over an aching tooth.

[seer]

What does "consciously agnostic" mean?

I mean I was very aware that I no longer believed in God, if I ever really did.

And I think I know what you mean about P. Robertson. I often find myself driving in a variety of cities, and I sometimes look for, and listen to, the local religious stations. The effect/impression is analogous to running my tongue over an aching tooth.

Except, even though I didn't like him, he was having an impact on my thinking, when he never did prior to this. Just one more small part of the puzzle.

[carpedm9587]

I mean I was very aware that I no longer believed in God, if I ever really did.

So you did believe at first, then didn't, and then you had your major conversion experience?

And why do you use the term agnostic instead of atheist?

Except, even though I didn't like him, he was having an impact on my thinking, when he never did prior to this. Just one more small part of the puzzle.

Any idea why that might be?

[seer]

So you did believe at first, then didn't, and then you had your major conversion experience?

I really can't remember if I ever really did believe in God in those young years, but I do remember rejecting the idea at 12.

And why do you use the term agnostic instead of atheist?

An atheist says there is no god, I didn't think there was but I was not certain.

Any idea why that might be?

CS Lewis said: “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”

I agree with that, Christianity makes sense of the world for me.

[carpedm9587]

I really can't remember if I ever really did believe in God in those young years, but I do remember rejecting the idea at 12.

That was the age at which I went from a "typical" religious kid to an ardent Christian - also after my own conversion experience. Now I look at 12 year olds and wonder just how deep their thought goes. Electronics are, IMO, blunting many human traits.

An atheist says there is no god, I didn't think there was but I was not certain.

Fair enough. That's a fairly common use of "agnostic."

CS Lewis said: “I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”

I agree with that, Christianity makes sense of the world for me.

You mentioned (earlier) your discomfort with some of the positions you held as an agnostic. If Christianity relieved that cognitive dissonance, I can see why it would have had a strong pull for you.

Thanks for sharing your story. It also helps to provide a framework for some of our discussions/debates to this point.

[Starlight]

Star - there is something of a mocking tone to this post.

Just to be clear, I was being serious and factually recounting things that have happened to me. It was not some sort of fiction or parody.

My own experiences, as I described, obviously impact how I think about experiences such as seer is describing.

[carpedm9587]

Just to be clear, I was being serious and factually recounting things that have happened to me. It was not some sort of fiction or parody.

My own experiences, as I described, obviously impact how I think about experiences such as seer is describing.

Understood. I may have misread you. Reading intent into the written word over an Internet connection is not an exact science.

If I did misread you - I apologize.

[seer]

You mentioned (earlier) your discomfort with some of the positions you held as an agnostic. If Christianity relieved that cognitive dissonance, I can see why it would have had a strong pull for you.

But my reservations were just not that nagging. Not nearly enough to explain the experiences I had for purely psychological reasons. And I do admit, again, that Christianity does make sense of the world for me. Never mind the hope and comfort it offers. Which is becoming more important to me the older I get.

Thanks for sharing your story. It also helps to provide a framework for some of our discussions/debates to this point.

Peace new friend...

[carpedm9587]

But my reservations were just not that nagging. Not nearly enough to explain the experiences I had for purely psychological reasons.

Understood

And I do admit, again, that Christianity does make sense of the world for me. Never mind the hope and comfort it offers. Which is becoming more important to me the older I get.

So, if you're willing, what specifically does Christianity do to "make sense" of the world that other worldviews don't?

And what kinds of "comfort" are you finding - especially as you get older?

Peace new friend...

Likewise...

[JimL]

I was raised in a nominal Catholic home, in a largely Catholic neighborhood. My father went to church every week, my mother never did - except for weddings and funerals. I was consciously agnostic by the age of 12. That lasted, like I said, until I was 37. And yes, like I said that summer was very unusual as far as running into Christians. I spent most my life trying to stay away from them. There was another strange thing. I used to watch MTV a lot, the channel up from that had this guy Pat Robertson preaching all the time. I couldn't stand him, but more and more I found myself listening to him...

Seer, no offense, but Pat Robertson, really, thats who changed your mind? I hope you know now what fraud he is.

[Tassman]

I was raised in a nominal Catholic home, in a largely Catholic neighborhood. My father went to church every week, my mother never did - except for weddings and funerals. I was consciously agnostic by the age of 12. That lasted, like I said, until I was 37. And yes, like I said that summer was very unusual as far as running into Christians. I spent most my life trying to stay away from them. There was another strange thing. I used to watch MTV a lot, the channel up from that had this guy Pat Robertson preaching all the time. I couldn't stand him, but more and more I found myself listening to him...

Well God does indeed move in mysterious ways. Pat Robertson is a legendary scam artist on a scale most people can’t even imagine. He’s as bad as the Islamic theocracies in the Middle East; if he could have his way the USA would be run under a Christian dictatorship. He’s a true dominionist.

https://joelx.com/pat-robertson-the-...orruption/168/

[seer]

Seer, no offense, but Pat Robertson, really, thats who changed your mind? I hope you know now what fraud he is.

Jim, like I said, at the time I really did not like the man, but he was preaching the Gospel. In other words, the Gospel, for the first time in my life was starting to make sense. And no, like I also said, Robertson was only a small part of the puzzle that lead to my conversion.

[seer]

Well God does indeed move in mysterious ways. Pat Robertson is a legendary scam artist on a scale most people can’t even imagine. He’s as bad as the Islamic theocracies in the Middle East; if he could have his way the USA would be run under a Christian dictatorship. He’s a true dominionist.

So what is your point? I am no supporter of Robertson...

[seer]

So, if you're willing, what specifically does Christianity do to "make sense" of the world that other worldviews don't?

I think theism in general would make sense of the world to me. As far as Christianity - well it is the person and teaching and resurrection of Christ. Think about it, this nobody from the backwaters of Palestine, whose public ministry lasted only lasted a short three years, became, arguably, the single most influential person of human history. There is something quite attractive about Him and His message. It simply rings true to many of us...

And what kinds of "comfort" are you finding - especially as you get older?

Life, the possibility of everlasting life in the company of my God, Christ and fellow human beings...That death is not the end...