Antifa are officially domestic terrorists

[Starlight]

Remember, there's not a single "gay movement."

A lot of ignorant conservatives seem to genuinely think there is. Rather than individuals around the world who are gay thinking it might be quite nice for them to have human rights, and them forming many and various grassroots groups to demand their rights to have sex and to marry and to not be fired from their jobs for being gay... a lot of conservatives seem to imagine instead that being gay is like something like a religious cult that people are indoctrinated into. And apparently NAMBLA runs the cult and has a gay agenda, and possibly operates out of a pizza shop mentioned in Hillary's emails. It's beyond bonkers.

I think it helps them rationalize their anti-gay positions, because instead of perceiving themselves as really nasty people who are actively working to cause pain and suffering to the lives of millions of gay individuals around the world, they can instead view themselves as God's warriors who are opposing a satanic "gay agenda" that is propagating throughout humanity. So Rogue doesn't really see himself as slandering millions of individuals around the world who are gay and want their rights and who have never heard of NAMBLA, when he tries to link them to it, he see himself as exposing the great conspiracy of the gay agenda that supposedly underlies their disparate actions, it's kinda sad.

[Tassman]

Really?

Your only defense was to say that NAMBLA got booted out of participating in events like some gay pride marches^[1] conveniently overlooking the fact that they were part of, and the founder of NAMBLA, David Thorstad, had even been invited to be the keynote speaker at. Then the leaders of the gay rights movement realized that they had to jettison their longtime allies if they ever were going to succeed in normalizing gay behavior.

That they had marched arm-and-arm together for quite some time is attested to by the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) acknowledgement that NAMBLA played an integral part of the gay rights movement for at least a decade stating in 1994.

NAMBLA has been a member of the International Lesbian and Gay Association for 10 years. We've been continuously active in ILGA longer than any other US organization. NAMBLA delegates to ILGA helped write ILGA's constitution, its official positions on the sexual rights of youth, and its stands against sexual coercion and corporal punishment. We are proud of our contributions in making ILGA a stronger voice for the international gay and lesbian movement and for sexual justice.

In spite of this proud history, four of ILGA's six secretariats, meeting in New York, November 5-7, have request NAMBLA to resign and stated that they will seek its expulsion by the general membership this summer unless it complies.

IOW, NAMBLA had been a member in good standing of ILGA, and only after that latter group sought consultative status with the United Nations, were accepted and then suspended when their close relationship with NAMBLA was discovered, were they tossed aside, as the gay rights magazine The Advocate describes it, "revoking NAMBLA's ten-year membership in the worldwide group."

Oops.

In fact NAMBLA arose out of the the "Boston-Boise Committee," which was a gay rights organization, and their reaction to the arrest of 24 men for having sex with minors during a raid on a house in the late 70s (which they termed the "Boston witchunt"), in order to promote solidarity among gay men, declaring in an official leaflet that:"The Gay Community Fights Back" and "The closet is weak. There is strength in unity and openness."

And as I've previously noted there were many outspoken prominent gay activists who were upset with this and refused to throw their comrades under the bus such as the poet Allen Ginsberg with his "Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics, witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance" remark. And prominent American gay rights activist, Harry Hay, sometimes referred to as the "Father of Gay Liberation" wearing his "NAMBLA walks with me" sign at the 1986 Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade after NAMBLA was excluded.

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Even more telling were his remarks at the 1983 NAMBLA conference in New York where he proclaimed:

"If the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world"

Need more or are you still in denial?

How about Michael Kearns' 1988 article "Men Loving Boys" in the Los Angeles gay magazine Edge where he said that

"Discrimination among ourselves is profoundly self destructive. NAMBLA deserves to be heard and respected"

"Respected"?

In the Bay Area Reporter (BAR -- the oldest as well as one of the largest circulation pro-gay newspapers by circulation in the United States), Steve Hanson declared in a 1992 article "Shame on Us":

"Shame on us if our lesbian/gay voices remain silent while our NAMBLA brothers are persecuted once again, and shame on those lesbians and gay men who will raise their voices to condemn NAMBLA, insisting that boy lovers (and presumably the boys they love and who love them) are not part of this thing called the lesbian/gay community."

Scott O'Hara (real name John Robert Scott), the gay porno actor and activist who published the quarterly gay sex magazine Steam wrote

"In the efforts of the gay establishment to suppress NAMBLA I see the seeds of tyranny."

James Lynn 'Jim' Kepner, regarded as a pioneer of the U.S. gay rights movement, curator of the International Gay and Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles which became a major part of ONE National Gay & Lesbian Archives (called the premier source for gay and lesbian research), wrote

"If we reject the boylovers in our midst today we’d better stop waving the banner of the Ancient Greeks, of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, [and others]. We’d better stop claiming them as part of our heritage unless we are broadening our concept of what it means to be gay today."

In his 1991 book The Big Gay Book: A Man's Survival Guide for the 90s, John D. Preston, described as a pioneer in the early gay rights movement in Minneapolis, Minnesota who helped found one of the earliest gay community centers in the United States, was still promoting NAMBLA when he tells his readers

"Sex between youths and adults is one of the most difficult issues in the gay movement. When does a youngster have the right and the power to make his own sexual decisions? How are laws against intergenerational sex used specifically to target gay men? What are the issues that make the romantic image of the Greek teacher and his student in times of antiquity turn into something ugly and forbidden in the modern age? If you want to explore these issues, NAMBLA is the organization that will supply you with brochures, thought-provoking books and booklets."

Around the same time the founder of the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT-UP) was blaming the victims of pedophiles in order to justify it as recounted in Reports from the Holocaust: The Story of an AIDS Activist a book about on AIDS activism and gay rights:

"In those cases where children do have sex with their homosexual elders... I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it, either because of a natural curiosity."

Likewise the French philosopher Michel Foucault with an apparent fondness for the sado-masochistic gay scene, made similar claims

"It is quite difficult to lay down barriers [particularly since] it could be that the child, with his own sexuality, may have desired the adult."

Samuel Delany, a noted Science Fiction author who has won 4 Nebula and 2 Hugo awards, and an outspoken gay activist wrote in the Queer Desires Forum in 1994:

*Mild language warning*

"I read The NAMBLA Bulletin fairly regularly and I think it is one of the most intelligent discussions of sexuality I've ever found. ... Before you start judging what NAMBLA is about, expose yourself to it and see what it is really about, the issues they are really talking about; and deal with what's really there rather than this demonized notion of guys running about trying to screw little boys. I would have been so much happier as an adolescent if NAMBLA had been around when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, 13."

In a 1994 issue of the national gay magazine 10 Percent Magazine, one of NAMBLA's founders boasted, David Thorstad boasted

"If it weren't for us [pedophiles], there wouldn't be a gay movement. If the leaders of the gay movement today want to turn their backs on the spirit of gay liberation, f- them. We're speaking the truth, and the truth is that man boy love is a central part of gay liberation, and it is a central feature of homosexuality in the West."

ETA: And, btw, I cannot help but notice how you always overlooked this part of my original post when it is brought up

To add to that back in 1984 a Philadelphia bookstore sold a book entitled How to Have Sex With Kids by the Howard Nichols Society (run by David Sonenschein, a former consultant to the 1970 Presidential Committee on Obscenity and Pornography!), which included instructions on how to both entice and kidnap small children, how to have sex with them, and even how to intimidate and threaten them into silence. The gay community proclaimed that the book was protected by the First Amendment and generally refused to either disavow the contents of the book or to criticize the writers, publishers, or distributors of it.







1. After being disinvited for political expediency NAMBLA was nevertheless still invited to participate in other gay pride marches such as the Spirit of Stonewall (SOS) parade. Long time gay activist and civil libertarian Bill Dobbs was extremely vocal in his defense of their participation.

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NAMBLA at the SOS parade

That’s’ a lot of words (as is your wont) for an organisation which has dwindled to only a handful of people. Nobody likes pedophiles, whatever their sexual orientation, and your attempt to associate it with Antifa is misleading and scurrilous. Antifa exists for one purpose only, namely to resist the rising tide of Fascism in Trump’s America. And whilst some of their methods may be questionable, their goal is not.

[rogue06]

That’s’ a lot of words

I had a lot of evidence that verified what I said (and can provide more). Starlight likes to pretend otherwise.

for an organisation which has dwindled to only a handful of people.

As usual the point soars over your head. Then again anything a hair's breadth above the ground generally does.

Nobody likes pedophiles, whatever their sexual orientation,

Until relatively recently the gay rights crowd considered them valuable allies and fellow travelers and only threw them under the bus for political expediency.

and your attempt to associate it with Antifa is misleading and scurrilous.

I cannot help but notice that nobody has made a serious attempt to refute the link

Antifa exists for one purpose only, namely to resist the rising tide of Fascism in Trump’s America. And whilst some of their methods may be questionable, their goal is not.

They re-emerged in the 1990s meaning they rose when Trump was a Democrat with no political aspirations.

Failure seems to be one thing you are genuinely good at.

[rogue06]

So Rogue doesn't really see himself as slandering millions of individuals around the world who are gay and want their rights and who have never heard of NAMBLA, when he tries to link them to it, he see himself as exposing the great conspiracy of the gay agenda that supposedly underlies their disparate actions, it's kinda sad.

I'll take this bit of petulant whining as your concession that there was in deed a deep, long term connection between the group and the gay rights movement since you are no longer even feigning that connection didn't exist.

[Starlight]

I'll take this bit of petulant whining as your concession that there was in deed a deep, long term connection between the group and the gay rights movement since you are no longer even feigning that connection didn't exist.

You should probably get some therapy. I don't know what unfortunate personal experiences you have had to cause your obsession with NAMBLA and conspiracies about it. But your slandering millions of gay individuals with your absurd falsehoods is borderline illegal and at best seriously messed up. Get help dude.

And FYI, not taking you seriously enough to even read your supposed 'evidence', obviously doesn't count as implicit admission of the truth of your conspiracy nut theories. I have little doubt they are false on all particulars. As Hedrick and I have both commented, even the basic outline of your theory isn't coherent because "the gay rights movement", as you put it, has been a massive bunch of diverse grassroots and independent groups with minimal cohesion.

[Tassman]

wow I was being sarcastic when I challenged you lot to defend Antifa now. But you rose to the occasion. You readily defend them and excuse them being domestic terrorists with ties to pedophiles and radical communism which has killed more people than Nazism ever did.
.

Antifa is fighting white supremacists and their odious ideology. Their goal is good even if their methods are sometimes not. OTOH the White Supremacists support neo-Nazism. Neither their goals NOR their methodology is good, they are bad. And the moral equivalency of Trump and his supporters is unacceptable as has been recognised nationally and internationally by virtually all...except the Evangelical Right. Looking at you, Sparko!

[Tassman]

I had a lot of evidence that verified what I said (and can provide more). Starlight likes to pretend otherwise.


As usual the point soars over your head. Then again anything a hair's breadth above the ground generally does.


Until relatively recently the gay rights crowd considered them valuable allies and fellow travelers and only threw them under the bus for political expediency.


I cannot help but notice that nobody has made a serious attempt to refute the link


They re-emerged in the 1990s meaning they rose when Trump was a Democrat with no political aspirations.

Failure seems to be one thing you are genuinely good at.

Sigh!

We have your usual shopping list of ultra-right wing sites such as Erick Woods Erickson at Resurgent, Fox News, The Daily Caller and Glen Beck’s The Blaze etc, etc, etc... .and of course our very own Rogue is supporting all this crap. But why do you feel the need to condemn Antifa’s anti-Fascist goals with your scurrilous assertions? Do you really believe that Antifa is fostering pedophilia? Or are you merely trying to discredit Antifa with guilt by association. But, why would you want to discredit anti fascism and support the neo-Nazis?

Oh, got it.

[Starlight]

But, why would you want to discredit anti fascism and support the neo-Nazis?

Oh, got it.

Yep.

But why do you feel the need to condemn Antifa’s anti-Fascist goals with your scurrilous assertions? Do you really believe that Antifa is fostering pedophilia?

It seems to be their favorite go-to. They use it against the pizza shop in Hillary's emails, gay rights supporters, and now Antifa. Apparently the less the theory passes a basic sanity-check, they more credible they think it is. I guess I shouldn't tell them about the NAMBLA pizza shop I operate out of the Antifa headquarters above the local gay bar, that also has Hillary's emails hidden on a secret server in the basement.

[Tassman]

Yep.

It seems to be their favorite go-to. They use it against the pizza shop in Hillary's emails, gay rights supporters, and now Antifa. Apparently the less the theory passes a basic sanity-check, they more credible they think it is. I guess I shouldn't tell them about the NAMBLA pizza shop I operate out of the Antifa headquarters above the local gay bar, that also has Hillary's emails hidden on a secret server in the basement.

Let's just keep that to ourselves.

[EvoUK]

LOL, only a Nazi would make such unfounded accusations.

Thanks for quoting all that again. TL;DR

[Zymologist]

LOL, only a Nazi would make such unfounded accusations.

I'd just like to say: called it.

[Sparko]

A lot of ignorant conservatives seem to genuinely think there is. Rather than individuals around the world who are gay thinking it might be quite nice for them to have human rights, and them forming many and various grassroots groups to demand their rights to have sex and to marry and to not be fired from their jobs for being gay... a lot of conservatives seem to imagine instead that being gay is like something like a religious cult that people are indoctrinated into. And apparently NAMBLA runs the cult and has a gay agenda, and possibly operates out of a pizza shop mentioned in Hillary's emails. It's beyond bonkers.

I think it helps them rationalize their anti-gay positions, because instead of perceiving themselves as really nasty people who are actively working to cause pain and suffering to the lives of millions of gay individuals around the world, they can instead view themselves as God's warriors who are opposing a satanic "gay agenda" that is propagating throughout humanity. So Rogue doesn't really see himself as slandering millions of individuals around the world who are gay and want their rights and who have never heard of NAMBLA, when he tries to link them to it, he see himself as exposing the great conspiracy of the gay agenda that supposedly underlies their disparate actions, it's kinda sad.

Ah so when we point out that the liberal groups are associated with pedophiles or some other unsavory group, you point out that the liberal group is not a homogeneous group but made up of many factions and of course you guys are not associated with the "bad" ones. But when you see some far right extremist group like nazis or KKK, all conservatives belong to it by default.

[Sparko]

And FYI, not taking you seriously enough to even read your supposed 'evidence',

fingers_in_ears.jpg

[Sparko]

Antifa is fighting white supremacists and their odious ideology. Their goal is good even if their methods are sometimes not. OTOH the White Supremacists support neo-Nazism. Neither their goals NOR their methodology is good, they are bad. And the moral equivalency of Trump and his supporters is unacceptable as has been recognised nationally and internationally by virtually all...except the Evangelical Right. Looking at you, Sparko!

So you are therefore a commie who supports violence and the mass murder of millions under communism - more than any Nazi ever killed. Good to know!

[Zymologist]

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I called it, man...only a Nazi would accuse the left of something so obviously ridiculous, and anything a Nazi says can be safely disregarded completely.