Antifa are officially domestic terrorists

[Mountain Man]

The same can be said about mainstream conservatives and groups like the KKK. No matter how many times a conservative denounces them as scum reporters nevertheless continue to pepper them with demands to repudiate them (pretending that they haven't already done so repeatedly). OTOH, liberals are virtually never asked to repudiate groups like antifa or questioned about the communist party endorsing them.

It's almost like the MSM practices a double standard.

Such as the media being studiously disinterested in Obama's many unsavory associations.

"Who was William Ayers?"
"Just some guy in my neighborhood."
"O.K., then, no need to look into that any further!"

[Starlight]

OK liberals, defend antifa now.

Your source is dailycaller, seriously? I don't know which is more of a joke: it or you. Trying to tie antifa to NAMBLA of all things, comes across as hilariously idiotic.

For quite some time the major gay rights groups marched arm-and-arm with NAMBLA. That long-term support of NAMBLA didn't hurt them.

What is with you and your obsession with this false claim? It's been debunked time and again on this forum.



What is with you guys and your general obsession with NAMBLA? Seriously, it's pretty weird.

[rogue06]

What is with you guys and your general obsession with NAMBLA? Seriously, it's pretty weird.

There was fairly widespread support for them among what is now considered mainstream liberalism.

[Starlight]

There was fairly widespread support for them among what is now considered mainstream liberalism.

Do you think if you repeat slanders often enough they will somehow become true?

[lilpixieofterror]

Do you think if you repeat slanders often enough they will somehow become true?

That's pretty funny coming from the king of slanderers that slanders anyone that dares to disagree with him.

[Tassman]

There was fairly widespread support for them among what is now considered mainstream liberalism.

This is just one more of the slippery-slope arguments so beloved by you lot. And NAMBLA particularly resonates because nobody likes paedophiles. Hence, tying it in with Antifa, no matter how illegitimate the connection, is effective but utterly dishonest. The fact remains that Antifa is anti-fascist which is surely a good thing...even if their methodology is questionable. OTOH nothing about the neo-Nazis is good...at any level. Not that you would know it based on the defence provided by the Evangelicals around here.

[Mountain Man]

There was fairly widespread support for them among what is now considered mainstream liberalism.

Yep. Harry Hay, considered the father of gay rights, was an outspoken supporter of pedophilia, and pedophiles were regular participants in early gay pride marches and other protests. The homosexual community only started to distance itself from pedophilia due to public pressure (during this time, Hay defiantly wore a sandwich-board declaring, "NAMBLA marches with me!"), but the ties were never entirely severed, and pedophiles have been waiting for the day they can once again openly stand shoulder to shoulder with their brothers and sisters in the homosexual community.

This information is still obtainable through an internet search, but it if becoming admittedly harder to find because of censorship.

[rogue06]

What is with you and your obsession with this false claim? It's been debunked time and again on this forum.



What is with you guys and your general obsession with NAMBLA? Seriously, it's pretty weird.

Really?

It's roots are much deeper. From Journal of Homosexuality in 1991:

Source: Man/Boy Love and the American Gay Movement

Abstract

The issue of man/boy love has intersected the gay movement since the late nineteenth century, with the rise of the first gay rights movement in Germany. In the United States, as the gay movement has retreated from its vision of sexual freedom for all in favor of integration into existing social and political structures, it has sought to marginalize cross-generational love as a "non-gay" issue. The two movements continue to overlap, amid signs of mutual support as well as tension - a state of affairs that also characterizes their interrelationship in other countries. This article offers an overview and analysis of that interrelationship in the United States since the Stonewall Riots in New York City in June 1969, which marked the beginning of a reinvigorated struggle for gay liberation.

© Copyright Original Source

And from your source:

The first documented opposition to NAMBLA from LGBT organizations occurred at the conference that organized the first gay march on Washington in 1979.[27] In 1980, a group, called the Lesbian Caucus, distributed a flyer urging women to split from the annual New York City Gay Pride March, because according to the group, the organizing committee had been dominated by NAMBLA and its supporters.[27] The next year, after some lesbians threatened to picket, the Cornell University group Gay People at Cornell (Gay PAC) rescinded its invitation to NAMBLA founder David Thorstad to be the keynote speaker at the annual May Gay Festival.[27] In the following years, gay rights groups tried to block NAMBLA’s participation in gay pride parades, prompting leading gay rights figure Harry Hay to wear a sign proclaiming "NAMBLA walks with me" as he participated in a 1986 gay pride march in Los Angeles

Wrt to the last sentence I'll add that the poet Allen Ginsberg, often celebrated and revered in gay circles for his activism in support of their cause, was also a member and supporter of NAMBLA -- something that is often omitted. Ginsburg declared that "Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics, witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance. . . . I’m a member of NAMBLA because I love boys too — everybody does, who has a little humanity.”

And the 1972 Gay Rights Platform, created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention (represented by some 200 gay rights groups) held in Chicago of that year, called for "Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent" (#7 of actions to be taken at the state level). To the best of my knowledge, none of the organizations involved or their successors have ever repudiated this platform including the call to eliminate an age of consent.

Your only defense was to say that NAMBLA got booted out of participating in events like some gay pride marches^[1] conveniently overlooking the fact that they were part of, and the founder of NAMBLA, David Thorstad, had even been invited to be the keynote speaker at. Then the leaders of the gay rights movement realized that they had to jettison their longtime allies if they ever were going to succeed in normalizing gay behavior.

That they had marched arm-and-arm together for quite some time is attested to by the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) acknowledgement that NAMBLA played an integral part of the gay rights movement for at least a decade stating in 1994.

NAMBLA has been a member of the International Lesbian and Gay Association for 10 years. We've been continuously active in ILGA longer than any other US organization. NAMBLA delegates to ILGA helped write ILGA's constitution, its official positions on the sexual rights of youth, and its stands against sexual coercion and corporal punishment. We are proud of our contributions in making ILGA a stronger voice for the international gay and lesbian movement and for sexual justice.

In spite of this proud history, four of ILGA's six secretariats, meeting in New York, November 5-7, have request NAMBLA to resign and stated that they will seek its expulsion by the general membership this summer unless it complies.

IOW, NAMBLA had been a member in good standing of ILGA, and only after that latter group sought consultative status with the United Nations, were accepted and then suspended when their close relationship with NAMBLA was discovered, were they tossed aside, as the gay rights magazine The Advocate describes it, "revoking NAMBLA's ten-year membership in the worldwide group."

Oops.

In fact NAMBLA arose out of the the "Boston-Boise Committee," which was a gay rights organization, and their reaction to the arrest of 24 men for having sex with minors during a raid on a house in the late 70s (which they termed the "Boston witchunt"), in order to promote solidarity among gay men, declaring in an official leaflet that:"The Gay Community Fights Back" and "The closet is weak. There is strength in unity and openness."

And as I've previously noted there were many outspoken prominent gay activists who were upset with this and refused to throw their comrades under the bus such as the poet Allen Ginsberg with his "Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics, witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance" remark. And prominent American gay rights activist, Harry Hay, sometimes referred to as the "Father of Gay Liberation" wearing his "NAMBLA walks with me" sign at the 1986 Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade after NAMBLA was excluded.

0000000000000canadu.jpg

Even more telling were his remarks at the 1983 NAMBLA conference in New York where he proclaimed:

"If the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world"

Need more or are you still in denial?

How about Michael Kearns' 1988 article "Men Loving Boys" in the Los Angeles gay magazine Edge where he said that

"Discrimination among ourselves is profoundly self destructive. NAMBLA deserves to be heard and respected"

"Respected"?

In the Bay Area Reporter (BAR -- the oldest as well as one of the largest circulation pro-gay newspapers by circulation in the United States), Steve Hanson declared in a 1992 article "Shame on Us":

"Shame on us if our lesbian/gay voices remain silent while our NAMBLA brothers are persecuted once again, and shame on those lesbians and gay men who will raise their voices to condemn NAMBLA, insisting that boy lovers (and presumably the boys they love and who love them) are not part of this thing called the lesbian/gay community."

Scott O'Hara (real name John Robert Scott), the gay porno actor and activist who published the quarterly gay sex magazine Steam wrote

"In the efforts of the gay establishment to suppress NAMBLA I see the seeds of tyranny."

James Lynn 'Jim' Kepner, regarded as a pioneer of the U.S. gay rights movement, curator of the International Gay and Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles which became a major part of ONE National Gay & Lesbian Archives (called the premier source for gay and lesbian research), wrote

"If we reject the boylovers in our midst today we’d better stop waving the banner of the Ancient Greeks, of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, [and others]. We’d better stop claiming them as part of our heritage unless we are broadening our concept of what it means to be gay today."

In his 1991 book The Big Gay Book: A Man's Survival Guide for the 90s, John D. Preston, described as a pioneer in the early gay rights movement in Minneapolis, Minnesota who helped found one of the earliest gay community centers in the United States, was still promoting NAMBLA when he tells his readers

"Sex between youths and adults is one of the most difficult issues in the gay movement. When does a youngster have the right and the power to make his own sexual decisions? How are laws against intergenerational sex used specifically to target gay men? What are the issues that make the romantic image of the Greek teacher and his student in times of antiquity turn into something ugly and forbidden in the modern age? If you want to explore these issues, NAMBLA is the organization that will supply you with brochures, thought-provoking books and booklets."

Around the same time the founder of the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT-UP) was blaming the victims of pedophiles in order to justify it as recounted in Reports from the Holocaust: The Story of an AIDS Activist a book about on AIDS activism and gay rights:

"In those cases where children do have sex with their homosexual elders... I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it, either because of a natural curiosity."

Likewise the French philosopher Michel Foucault with an apparent fondness for the sado-masochistic gay scene, made similar claims

"It is quite difficult to lay down barriers [particularly since] it could be that the child, with his own sexuality, may have desired the adult."

Samuel Delany, a noted Science Fiction author who has won 4 Nebula and 2 Hugo awards, and an outspoken gay activist wrote in the Queer Desires Forum in 1994:

*Mild language warning*

"I read The NAMBLA Bulletin fairly regularly and I think it is one of the most intelligent discussions of sexuality I've ever found. ... Before you start judging what NAMBLA is about, expose yourself to it and see what it is really about, the issues they are really talking about; and deal with what's really there rather than this demonized notion of guys running about trying to screw little boys. I would have been so much happier as an adolescent if NAMBLA had been around when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, 13."

In a 1994 issue of the national gay magazine 10 Percent Magazine, one of NAMBLA's founders boasted, David Thorstad boasted

"If it weren't for us [pedophiles], there wouldn't be a gay movement. If the leaders of the gay movement today want to turn their backs on the spirit of gay liberation, f- them. We're speaking the truth, and the truth is that man boy love is a central part of gay liberation, and it is a central feature of homosexuality in the West."

ETA: And, btw, I cannot help but notice how you always overlooked this part of my original post when it is brought up

And the 1972 Gay Rights Platform, created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention (represented by some 200 gay rights groups) held in Chicago of that year, called for "Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent" (#7 of actions to be taken at the state level). To the best of my knowledge, none of the organizations involved or their successors have ever repudiated this platform including the call to eliminate an age of consent.

To add to that back in 1984 a Philadelphia bookstore sold a book entitled How to Have Sex With Kids by the Howard Nichols Society (run by David Sonenschein, a former consultant to the 1970 Presidential Committee on Obscenity and Pornography!), which included instructions on how to both entice and kidnap small children, how to have sex with them, and even how to intimidate and threaten them into silence. The gay community proclaimed that the book was protected by the First Amendment and generally refused to either disavow the contents of the book or to criticize the writers, publishers, or distributors of it.







1. After being disinvited for political expediency NAMBLA was nevertheless still invited to participate in other gay pride marches such as the Spirit of Stonewall (SOS) parade. Long time gay activist and civil libertarian Bill Dobbs was extremely vocal in his defense of their participation.

300px-Anti-nuc1982.jpg
NAMBLA at the SOS parade

[hedrick]

Remember, there's not a single "gay movement." My perception is that some early gay advocacy was by fringe people. For reasons that I think are obvious. As it became more accepted, more mainstream gays started to be more visible. That changed the balance of gay advocacy. But there are gays ranging from "free love" types to Christians with pretty conventional ideals.

[Mountain Man]

Remember, there's not a single "gay movement." My perception is that some early gay advocacy was by fringe people. For reasons that I think are obvious. As it became more accepted, more mainstream gays started to be more visible. That changed the balance of gay advocacy. But there are gays ranging from "free love" types to Christians with pretty conventional ideals.

Rather convenient to be able to dismiss the most visible, outspoken, and influential members of the homosexual community as the "fringe".

[Sparko]

Do you think if you repeat slanders often enough they will somehow become true?

Can I use that the next time you accuse us of being or defending Nazis?

[Sparko]

This is just one more of the slippery-slope arguments so beloved by you lot. And NAMBLA particularly resonates because nobody likes paedophiles. Hence, tying it in with Antifa, no matter how illegitimate the connection, is effective but utterly dishonest. The fact remains that Antifa is anti-fascist which is surely a good thing...even if their methodology is questionable. OTOH nothing about the neo-Nazis is good...at any level. Not that you would know it based on the defence provided by the Evangelicals around here.

wow I was being sarcastic when I challenged you lot to defend Antifa now. But you rose to the occasion. You readily defend them and excuse them being domestic terrorists with ties to pedophiles and radical communism which has killed more people than Nazism ever did.

Once again tassman puts his foot in his mouth.


I find it hilarious that you guys want to tie us to white supremacists and nazis just because we want to defend free speech despite us rigorously denying their values. And then in the next breath you guys actually DO defend the antifa and their values thereby tying yourself to them.


boggles my mind how un-self-aware you are Tassy. clueless is an understatement.

[Bill the Cat]

wow I was being sarcastic when I challenged you lot to defend Antifa now. But you rose to the occasion. You readily defend them and excuse them being domestic terrorists with ties to pedophiles and radical communism which has killed more people than Nazism ever did.

Once again tassman puts his foot in his mouth.


I find it hilarious that you guys want to tie us to white supremacists and nazis just because we want to defend free speech despite us rigorously denying their values. And then in the next breath you guys actually DO defend the antifa and their values thereby tying yourself to them.


boggles my mind how un-self-aware you are Tassy. clueless is an understatement.

I think he ACTUALLY supports Antifa. Like for real. Makes me wonder why he visits one of the world's worst places for human trafficking...

[Sparko]

I think he ACTUALLY supports Antifa. Like for real. Makes me wonder why he visits one of the world's worst places for human trafficking...

who knows? I won't seriously accuse him or anyone else of that unless he comes out and says it. I do know he seems to defend them at every turn and starlight even said punching nazis was a good thing. and every time we show how bad the antifa are, tassy will hand wave it away and claim that their goals are honorable.

[Zymologist]

Really?

Your only defense was to say that NAMBLA got booted out of participating in events like some gay pride marches^[1] conveniently overlooking the fact that they were part of, and the founder of NAMBLA, David Thorstad, had even been invited to be the keynote speaker at. Then the leaders of the gay rights movement realized that they had to jettison their longtime allies if they ever were going to succeed in normalizing gay behavior.

That they had marched arm-and-arm together for quite some time is attested to by the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) acknowledgement that NAMBLA played an integral part of the gay rights movement for at least a decade stating in 1994.

NAMBLA has been a member of the International Lesbian and Gay Association for 10 years. We've been continuously active in ILGA longer than any other US organization. NAMBLA delegates to ILGA helped write ILGA's constitution, its official positions on the sexual rights of youth, and its stands against sexual coercion and corporal punishment. We are proud of our contributions in making ILGA a stronger voice for the international gay and lesbian movement and for sexual justice.

In spite of this proud history, four of ILGA's six secretariats, meeting in New York, November 5-7, have request NAMBLA to resign and stated that they will seek its expulsion by the general membership this summer unless it complies.

IOW, NAMBLA had been a member in good standing of ILGA, and only after that latter group sought consultative status with the United Nations, were accepted and then suspended when their close relationship with NAMBLA was discovered, were they tossed aside, as the gay rights magazine The Advocate describes it, "revoking NAMBLA's ten-year membership in the worldwide group."

Oops.

In fact NAMBLA arose out of the the "Boston-Boise Committee," which was a gay rights organization, and their reaction to the arrest of 24 men for having sex with minors during a raid on a house in the late 70s (which they termed the "Boston witchunt"), in order to promote solidarity among gay men, declaring in an official leaflet that:"The Gay Community Fights Back" and "The closet is weak. There is strength in unity and openness."

And as I've previously noted there were many outspoken prominent gay activists who were upset with this and refused to throw their comrades under the bus such as the poet Allen Ginsberg with his "Attacks on NAMBLA stink of politics, witchhunting for profit, humorlessness, vanity, anger and ignorance" remark. And prominent American gay rights activist, Harry Hay, sometimes referred to as the "Father of Gay Liberation" wearing his "NAMBLA walks with me" sign at the 1986 Los Angeles Gay Pride Parade after NAMBLA was excluded.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23946[/ATTACH]

Even more telling were his remarks at the 1983 NAMBLA conference in New York where he proclaimed:

"If the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world"

Need more or are you still in denial?

How about Michael Kearns' 1988 article "Men Loving Boys" in the Los Angeles gay magazine Edge where he said that

"Discrimination among ourselves is profoundly self destructive. NAMBLA deserves to be heard and respected"

"Respected"?

In the Bay Area Reporter (BAR -- the oldest as well as one of the largest circulation pro-gay newspapers by circulation in the United States), Steve Hanson declared in a 1992 article "Shame on Us":

"Shame on us if our lesbian/gay voices remain silent while our NAMBLA brothers are persecuted once again, and shame on those lesbians and gay men who will raise their voices to condemn NAMBLA, insisting that boy lovers (and presumably the boys they love and who love them) are not part of this thing called the lesbian/gay community."

Scott O'Hara (real name John Robert Scott), the gay porno actor and activist who published the quarterly gay sex magazine Steam wrote

"In the efforts of the gay establishment to suppress NAMBLA I see the seeds of tyranny."

James Lynn 'Jim' Kepner, regarded as a pioneer of the U.S. gay rights movement, curator of the International Gay and Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles which became a major part of ONE National Gay & Lesbian Archives (called the premier source for gay and lesbian research), wrote

"If we reject the boylovers in our midst today we’d better stop waving the banner of the Ancient Greeks, of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, [and others]. We’d better stop claiming them as part of our heritage unless we are broadening our concept of what it means to be gay today."

In his 1991 book The Big Gay Book: A Man's Survival Guide for the 90s, John D. Preston, described as a pioneer in the early gay rights movement in Minneapolis, Minnesota who helped found one of the earliest gay community centers in the United States, was still promoting NAMBLA when he tells his readers

"Sex between youths and adults is one of the most difficult issues in the gay movement. When does a youngster have the right and the power to make his own sexual decisions? How are laws against intergenerational sex used specifically to target gay men? What are the issues that make the romantic image of the Greek teacher and his student in times of antiquity turn into something ugly and forbidden in the modern age? If you want to explore these issues, NAMBLA is the organization that will supply you with brochures, thought-provoking books and booklets."

Around the same time the founder of the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT-UP) was blaming the victims of pedophiles in order to justify it as recounted in Reports from the Holocaust: The Story of an AIDS Activist a book about on AIDS activism and gay rights:

"In those cases where children do have sex with their homosexual elders... I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it, either because of a natural curiosity."

Likewise the French philosopher Michel Foucault with an apparent fondness for the sado-masochistic gay scene, made similar claims

"It is quite difficult to lay down barriers [particularly since] it could be that the child, with his own sexuality, may have desired the adult."

Samuel Delany, a noted Science Fiction author who has won 4 Nebula and 2 Hugo awards, and an outspoken gay activist wrote in the Queer Desires Forum in 1994:

*Mild language warning*

"I read The NAMBLA Bulletin fairly regularly and I think it is one of the most intelligent discussions of sexuality I've ever found. ... Before you start judging what NAMBLA is about, expose yourself to it and see what it is really about, the issues they are really talking about; and deal with what's really there rather than this demonized notion of guys running about trying to screw little boys. I would have been so much happier as an adolescent if NAMBLA had been around when I was 9, 10, 11, 12, 13."

In a 1994 issue of the national gay magazine 10 Percent Magazine, one of NAMBLA's founders boasted, David Thorstad boasted

"If it weren't for us [pedophiles], there wouldn't be a gay movement. If the leaders of the gay movement today want to turn their backs on the spirit of gay liberation, f- them. We're speaking the truth, and the truth is that man boy love is a central part of gay liberation, and it is a central feature of homosexuality in the West."

ETA: And, btw, I cannot help but notice how you always overlooked this part of my original post when it is brought up

To add to that back in 1984 a Philadelphia bookstore sold a book entitled How to Have Sex With Kids by the Howard Nichols Society (run by David Sonenschein, a former consultant to the 1970 Presidential Committee on Obscenity and Pornography!), which included instructions on how to both entice and kidnap small children, how to have sex with them, and even how to intimidate and threaten them into silence. The gay community proclaimed that the book was protected by the First Amendment and generally refused to either disavow the contents of the book or to criticize the writers, publishers, or distributors of it.







1. After being disinvited for political expediency NAMBLA was nevertheless still invited to participate in other gay pride marches such as the Spirit of Stonewall (SOS) parade. Long time gay activist and civil libertarian Bill Dobbs was extremely vocal in his defense of their participation.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23947[/ATTACH]
NAMBLA at the SOS parade

LOL, only a Nazi would make such unfounded accusations.