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Thread: Your Views on Patriarchy

  1. #11
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Not to mention, what if I want to stay single(and celibate)? I've heard that Paul was turning household codes on their heads by making the Pater Familias(the male head of the household in Ancient Rome, very sexist) hae something to do also. Household codes were generally directed at only women, children, and slaves. The man could do whatever he wanted under Roman house codes. Paul wrote that the husband/father/master had responsibilities also. And you can't microwave human cultural advancement. It would take centuries for the ideal of no male or female would come to fruition(if it fully has yet in parts of the world).
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  2. #12
    tWebber Wildflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Not to mention, what if I want to stay single(and celibate)? I've heard that Paul was turning household codes on their heads by making the Pater Familias(the male head of the household in Ancient Rome, very sexist) hae something to do also. Household codes were generally directed at only women, children, and slaves. The man could do whatever he wanted under Roman house codes. Paul wrote that the husband/father/master had responsibilities also. And you can't microwave human cultural advancement. It would take centuries for the ideal of no male or female would come to fruition(if it fully has yet in parts of the world).
    Agreed.

    For the celibate or single mom, there is always the argument that she needs to be "under authority" of a male somewhere. Like a father or just grab a guy at church and make him your "covering" because sister, you NEED a covering.

    *not saying single motherhood is ideal, just saying it exists.
    Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017 at 02:00 PM.

  3. #13
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildflower View Post
    Agreed.

    For the celibate or single mom, there is always the argument that she needs to be "under authority" of a male somewhere. Like a father or just grab a guy at church and make him your "covering" because sister, you NEED a covering.
    Really? I haven't heard that. I've heard more that the guy should have final say in a marriage because guys really want to have power and respect. For some reason. Of course, making an exception for single women makes one wonder if we really need to act as if getting married makes a lady into a spiritual incompetent. Just because Paul had to work in the confines of his society doesn't mean that churches still need to have the sexist ideas of the past right? And all Christians are to submit to each other(whatever that means). I've also heard that it's more of a love and respect each other than a "girls are stupid and need a man to babysit" thing.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  4. #14
    tWebber Wildflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Of course, making an exception for single women makes one wonder if we really need to act as if getting married makes a lady into a spiritual incompetent.
    So true! It's like, "Sure, you can go on a mission field, you can lead others to Christ, you can have a degree in Theology...but as soon as you're married...you immediately become dependent upon your husband's leadership." Not a "let's decide together" , but rather "the man *should* listen to you (but doesn't have to) and respect your voice (but doesn't have to) and consider your thinking before *he* makes the "final" decision...but he doesn't have to. He actually sometimes will have to make decisions that his wife disagrees with. For her own good, of course. (Because she can't figure it out herself...or, if she can...she can't because the man has "final say". Not based on competence...but gender alone.) This is so damaging to a woman's self-concept.

    I believe patriarchy is abusive.
    Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017 at 02:13 PM.

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    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildflower View Post
    So true! It's like, "Sure, you can go on a mission field, you can lead others to Christ, you can have a degree in Theology...but as soon as you're married...you immediately become dependent upon your husband's leadership."
    Presumably to humor a man's need for control. Which still sounds sexist. As if men were power hungry idiots who need humoring. I don't really like how complentarians act like you are a bad Christian who must be pro choice if you disagree with them. Like this blog post that thinks if you don't agree with them, you must be a abortion promoting feminist. Which is crazy. I could claim abortion is sexist for claiming women can't make choices to not do things which could result in a pregnancy or look for other options instead of painting being an accessory to murdering her child as the only option. but that's getting off topic. It's one of the links that popped up when I searched for some of the words in your post.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  6. #16
    tWebber Wildflower's Avatar
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    So true. Not only will they automatically assume you are an abortion advocate, but then you must also embrace homosexuality, too. For all the hubris of being the "spiritual" leaders...they sure have trouble with logic...

  7. #17
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Then again, this link actually discusses the dangers of going too far into patriarchial stuff. Essentially that coplementarianism is not supposed to be patriarchal but some people try to make it go too far in that direction. Seems that men and women can both be stuck in the boy vs girl who's better battles, when they need to realize that differences don't make one better than the other just different.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  8. #18
    tWebber Wildflower's Avatar
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    There is no "balancing" in patriarchy. It is either patriarchy, matriarchy, or equality. Yes, sure, there are differences well enough. Different gifts, too. But patriarchy or matriarchy don't care about gifting and ability but about the power of one gender to rule (aka "have the final say") over another. It's abusive...

    http://www.ashleyeaster.com/blog/why...archy-is-abuse

    This link shows its not about "balance" no matter how loud the soft complementarians cry foul: http://www.ashleyeaster.com/blog/com...and-patriarchy
    Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017 at 03:25 PM.

  9. #19
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Like I said, it's a grown up version of girls and boys arguing about which gender is better and missing the point. I don't understain why they can't grow up and stop the power plays. It does seem like boys want power more than girls, but that may be a stereotype. I have no clue about the complementarian vs egalitarian debate. Other than wondering how many ladies actually support the "complementarian" view.
    Last edited by Christianbookworm; 09-07-2017 at 03:33 PM.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  10. #20
    tWebber Wildflower's Avatar
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    And this link about the logical fallacy of "equal but subordinate". This one get thrown out a lot, "You're not inferior, you're just "different""
    http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com/2014...equal-but.html

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