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Here is the Hen House. We gather and talk about men, shoes, clothing, and if those wings are all they are cracked up to be.

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Your Views on Patriarchy

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
    lol!
    And it's quite funny! Except for Darth Executor not being nice, but that's DE. He's a goofy troll.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
      And it's quite funny! Except for Darth Executor not being nice, but that's DE. He's a goofy troll.
      Yes, I quite noticed, lol. But I should have compassion...he doesn't understand the difference between ontological subservience and a subservient "role" that is voluntarily assumed. But he doesn't seem like the teachable kind, either...especially not by a woman. Aw well...
      Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

      Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

      Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
        Yes, I quite noticed, lol. But I should have compassion...he doesn't understand the difference between ontological subservience and a subservient "role" that is voluntarily assumed. But he doesn't seem like the teachable kind, either...especially not by a woman. Aw well...
        There's a difference between voluntarily being a follower type(fine, as long as you don't blindly follow a bad leader) and claiming that everyone that lacks a Y chromosome is a follower type.
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          There's a difference between voluntarily being a follower type(fine, as long as you don't blindly follow a bad leader) and claiming that everyone that lacks a Y chromosome is a follower type.
          Yes. We couldn't function as a society if follower/leader relationships did not exist. It's part of peace and order in society. Of course. But to say that women are always, *by their nature*, to permanently be the followers in church and home (and/or society) no matter their gifting, competence, or skill is a human rights issue that should not be practiced by those confessing Christ. It mars the view of God and the people He made to reflect His image.
          Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

          Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

          Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

          Comment


          • #35
            Some men and women are leader types and some men and women are not. There are also different kinds of leaders.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              Some men and women are leader types and some men and women are not. There are also different kinds of leaders.
              Yes, and giftedness should be the qualifier of who gets to "lead" and when. My husband and I are gifted differently. Where he is stronger, I follow. Where I am stronger, he follows. It works and how healthy marriage works. There is no need for anyone to make the "final call". Good grief. We are humans and can work it out without someone holding a "final vote" and trump card. That is such nonsense.
              Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

              Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

              Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
                The "Benevolent" Patriarchy (Soft Complementarianism) is seriously irritating. The "Don't worry, I will take care of you. I'll take the responsibility for you, I'll shoulder this burden for you." Should I therefore see myself as incompetent to care for myself? Am I not capable of being responsible for myself? Why do I need a "spiritual" leader in my home? Is Christ not enough for me that I should need a supplement, revealing just how very deficient that I am? Am I a perpetual infant in constant need of male care like this? Did God purpose this deficiency in me so that a man could come and rescue me? What is this?! Or, if its just fake...if I don't really *need* a male to be my spiritual head, etc...then why damage a woman's identity over it? Why keep her from becoming strong enough and competent enough to make decisions for herself and share in these decisions with her family? Seriously.

                If you believe in any variation of patriarchy, how do you handle this view of you as a woman? Either actually incompetent to lead and *need* a man to guide you, OR you actually are potentially competent but you aren't allowed to develop the God-given potential God created in you.

                I'm asking you how this makes you feel. Scripture wrangling can and has been done elsewhere. I'm not asking you for your interpretation of the verses thrown about over this topic. I"m asking you, as a woman, how you personally handle this view of God and yourself.
                Okay first let me ask, have you encountered variations of the Patriachy society/quiverfull movements?
                A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                  Okay first let me ask, have you encountered variations of the Patriachy society/quiverfull movements?
                  Oh, yes.

                  And I understand the distinctions that are worked in such as trying to say "soft complementarianism" instead of straight patriarchy, etc. However, the end result and how this affects you personally as a female...the point I made in the OP, is really what I'm asking for. And to refresh the point of the OP, I'm not looking to wrangle through the passages. I want to know how the logic of believing in a God who created women ontologically inferior or created her with potential to lead but then permanently denies this to her no matter her gifts, skill, and competence (that He also created in her) affects you as a person.
                  Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017, 03:34 PM.
                  Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                  Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                  Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
                    Yes, and giftedness should be the qualifier of who gets to "lead" and when. My husband and I are gifted differently. Where he is stronger, I follow. Where I am stronger, he follows. It works and how healthy marriage works. There is no need for anyone to make the "final call". Good grief. We are humans and can work it out without someone holding a "final vote" and trump card. That is such nonsense.
                    And, with His Spirit leading, and empowering us toward Christ-like conduct...this forced scenario of needing to have a "trump card" is not a strong basis for advocating Complementarianism in marriage.
                    Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                    Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                    Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Wildflower View Post
                      And, with His Spirit leading, and empowering us toward Christ-like conduct...this forced scenario of needing to have a "trump card" is not a strong basis for advocating Complementarianism in marriage.
                      To be honest, without using the scriptures, I can't explain why my spouse and I are egalitarians. But we are. The spiritual head of our household is Christ and as equal partners in our relationship, we make mutual decisions with each other. He gives 100 percent, and I give 100 percent. I don't think in anyway the way we read the Bible is unorthodox, heretical or a twisting of belief. Marriage to us is about bearing one another's burdens as we are not just spouses but we are brother and sister in Christ. There is a lot more to it, but I'll let you ask me as you see fit.
                      A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                      George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                        To be honest, without using the scriptures, I can't explain why my spouse and I are egalitarians. But we are. The spiritual head of our household is Christ and as equal partners in our relationship, we make mutual decisions with each other. He gives 100 percent, and I give 100 percent. I don't think in anyway the way we read the Bible is unorthodox, heretical or a twisting of belief. Marriage to us is about bearing one another's burdens as we are not just spouses but we are brother and sister in Christ. There is a lot more to it, but I'll let you ask me as you see fit.
                        I love this. And I agree 100%. Since you are not a Complementarian who believes herself to be ontologically inferior because she is female, you are not feeling God has made you deficient on purpose. I'm glad for this. I hope this for all women.
                        Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017, 03:49 PM.
                        Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                        Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                        Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hmm... how many of the boys are being goofballs and how many are sexist? Or we should ignore them.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The question I have is specifically for women...how they cope as a Complementarian woman who has to identify as permanently created to be inferior to male superiority in the home and church. Men can have no answer to this kind of personal question. It is, of course, valid for men to examine themselves as well. Believing that God purposes and endorses sexism is a serious infraction against God's character and the identity of the people He created to bear and reflect His image equally as male and female co-regents. If men who believe in gender equality (and thank God there are many men who do not feel inferior or psychologically threatened by women's ontological equality) won't speak up, the suffering of women and the hampering of God's purpose for creating humanity will just continue until they do.



                            Merriam-Webster definition:

                            Definition of sexism
                            1
                            : prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
                            2
                            : behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
                            Last edited by Wildflower; 09-07-2017, 04:27 PM.
                            Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                            Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                            Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              It sure does sound sexist!
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                                It sure does sound sexist!
                                Indeed. People always reflect the kind of God in Whom they believe.
                                Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?

                                Eowyn: A cage. To stay behind bars until use and old age accept them and all chance of valor has gone beyond recall or desire.

                                Aragorn: You are a daughter of kings, a shield maiden of Rohan. I do not think that will be your fate.

                                Comment

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