If the human person was created for a purpose then how a man conforms to that purpose tells us if he is good or bad. And example would be a car. If a car runs according to design we could call it a good car, if it always broke down we could call it a bad car, according to design. Moral behaviors that conform to our teleology would be called good (or moral) and those that don't would be called bad (or immoral). But if naturalism is correct there would be no objective purpose for the human person. No design to conform to, no standard to judge specific behaviors. How ever nature just happened to create us just "is."
Announcement
Collapse
Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Teleology And Human Ethics...
Collapse
X
-
Teleology And Human Ethics...
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3sTags: None
-
I'm holding off commenting because I think this is more pointed at the philosophical naturalists amongst us. You might get more traction in apologetics?"Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
-
Originally posted by guacamole View PostI'm holding off commenting because I think this is more pointed at the philosophical naturalists amongst us. You might get more traction in apologetics?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
The literal only solution for the non-theist is subjectivity or appeal to the natural, either of which can conceal monstrous ethical problems."Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
Comment
-
Originally posted by guacamole View PostThe literal only solution for the non-theist is subjectivity or appeal to the natural, either of which can conceal monstrous ethical problems.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
There can still be standards to judge whether or not an action is ethical. Such as whether or not an action helps or harms another.Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.
"Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham
"We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostIf the human person was created for a purpose then how a man conforms to that purpose tells us if he is good or bad. And example would be a car. If a car runs according to design we could call it a good car, if it always broke down we could call it a bad car, according to design. Moral behaviors that conform to our teleology would be called good (or moral) and those that don't would be called bad (or immoral). But if naturalism is correct there would be no objective purpose for the human person. No design to conform to, no standard to judge specific behaviors. How ever nature just happened to create us just "is."
A circular argument for the existence of God, where the assumption is the purpose and intent 'outside nature' must be for humanity to be as humanity is. It sounds a little like the moldy oldie 747 for intelligent design argument
Science does not argue for a just "is" scenario to explain the nature of humanity. There is obviously no objective verifiable evidence for an objective purpose outside nature itself, nor is it found to be necessary that this is the case.
Moldy oldie argument die hard, something like Zombies.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostIf the human person was created for a purpose then how a man conforms to that purpose tells us if he is good or bad.
And example would be a car. If a car runs according to design we could call it a good car, if it always broke down we could call it a bad car, according to design.
Moral behaviors that conform to our teleology would be called good (or moral) and those that don't would be called bad (or immoral).
But if naturalism is correct there would be no objective purpose for the human person. No design to conform to, no standard to judge specific behaviors. How ever nature just happened to create us just "is."
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostA circular argument for the existence of God, where the assumption is the purpose and intent 'outside nature' must be for humanity to be as humanity is. It sounds a little like the moldy oldie 747 for intelligent design argument
Science does not argue for a just "is" scenario to explain the nature of humanity. There is obviously no objective verifiable evidence for an objective purpose outside nature itself, nor is it found to be necessary that this is the case.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostWhat do you mean here by teleology? Moral behaviors do serve a purpose, the best interests of the species, of society, and ultimately of the individual members thereof.
The objective purpose of the human person is a different question than that of the purpose of moral laws. You're starting with the apriori belief that human beings were designed for a purpose. Thats a biased perspective because you want to believe that you, above all other life forms, are special in this regard. I'm sure that if turtles had evolved brains with the ability to think like human beings, they'd think themselves special as well.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostBut there is no purpose for humankind, not even for our survival. Any more than there was a purpose for extinct species.
Jim, what I'm saying is that if there is no purpose for humankind, then there is no correct way to live, morally, a way that would serve or line up with that purpose. Even speaking of the best interests of the species is ultimately meaningless since our survival itself is not purposeful.Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-04-2017, 08:13 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe purpose of living and extinct species remains survival. The reality is changes in the environment, competition between species naturally result in some species to evolve and some species to become extinct. The success or failure of different species is not luck, it is simply a result of natural processes as the objective verifiable evidence confirms that we can observe today. The natural course of life and evolution is not evidence for a coherent argument against natural evolution.
Webster, purpose: a :something set up as an object or end to be attained :intention
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/purpose
Oxford, purpose: The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/purposeAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostShuny, there is no purpose to survive. Nature did not purpose or intent our creation or our survival.
Webster, purpose: a :something set up as an object or end to be attained :intention
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/purpose
Oxford, purpose: The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/purpose
Oxford, purpose: The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.
Purpose for the existence and survival of life and the species does not necessarily have a purpose beyond Natural Law and natural course of the nature of our existence. Creation by an outside 'Source' as the purpose is a theological/philosophical assumption of belief.Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-04-2017, 09:45 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostSurvival of life and the species is the purpose of evolution by definition.
Oxford, purpose: The reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by shunyadragon, 03-01-2024, 09:40 AM
|
172 responses
611 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
04-15-2024, 11:55 AM
|
Comment