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Philosophy 201 Guidelines

Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Teleology And Human Ethics...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    All true, and you don't like it. So what? Thats what I meant when I said that you begin with the presupposition that you were created and exist for a certain intended purpose. Not liking the truth, i.e. that there is no ultimate purpose for existing, doesn't make it false.
    I'm glad you agree that your life or humankind has no ultimate purpose in your worldview.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      I'm glad you agree that your life or humankind has no ultimate purpose in your worldview.
      Like I said seer, not liking the way the world seems to be, is not reason in itself to deny it. Everything begins to exist, and everything dies, including universes, because they are only temporal effects within the eternal infinite whole for which there can be no ultimate purpose, it just is. What would you say a Gods ultimate purpose is? Doesn't have one does he? So why do you think you should have an ultimate purpose?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Like I said seer, not liking the way the world seems to be, is not reason in itself to deny it. Everything begins to exist, and everything dies, including universes, because they are only temporal effects within the eternal infinite whole for which there can be no ultimate purpose, it just is. What would you say a Gods ultimate purpose is? Doesn't have one does he? So why do you think you should have an ultimate purpose?
        Jim God just is, but the difference between God and not-god bears on human purpose and value.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Shuny, "intention" was part of the Webster definition for purpose. So tell me, what was the reason why natural laws created life?
          Intention was an option and not necessary. I go with the Oxford definition which gave three specific options. Creation was only one option.

          Life was not necessarily 'Created.' That is a theological belief.

          Definition: Reason - "a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event."

          The 'reason' and 'cause, explanation and justification' for the nature of our existence is Natural Laws and natural processes by the objective verifiable evidence.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Jim God just is, but the difference between God and not-god bears on human purpose and value.
            But you cannot build that on something that just is (whatever that means) and does not have purpose. It is a dead end track, seer. Again you seem to avoid the tough questions by just making statements with no justification.
            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Jim God just is, but the difference between God and not-god bears on human purpose and value.
              Like I said, you have presupposition of purpose for existence. Whats gods purpose?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Intention was an option and not necessary. I go with the Oxford definition which gave three specific options. Creation was only one option.

                Life was not necessarily 'Created.' That is a theological belief.

                Definition: Reason - "a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event."

                The 'reason' and 'cause, explanation and justification' for the nature of our existence is Natural Laws and natural processes by the objective verifiable evidence.
                Shuny, I asked a specific question, what was the reason for our creation? If materialism is true there isn't one. Did nature create us to survive or not survive? You can say that the natural forces caused life on earth - but that is not a purpose.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Like I said, you have presupposition of purpose for existence. Whats gods purpose?
                  Jim, God just is, there can be no other answer. You believe that matter and energy are past eternal - what is their purpose?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Charles View Post
                    But you cannot build that on something that just is (whatever that means) and does not have purpose. It is a dead end track, seer. Again you seem to avoid the tough questions by just making statements with no justification.
                    That is just stupid Charles, if you believe that matter and energy are past eternal then they just are. You can not assign a purpose to them. So in that case you can not build anything on that.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Shuny, I asked a specific question, what was the reason for our creation? If materialism is true there isn't one. Did nature create us to survive or not survive? You can say that the natural forces caused life on earth - but that is not a purpose.
                      That is not the question. This question is answered as a matter of belief in God and Creation, and not objective verifiable evidence concerning the nature of our physical existence, life and evolution, which is the subject I addressed, and you have failed to respond.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        That is not the question. This question is answered as a matter of belief in God and Creation, and not objective verifiable evidence concerning the nature of our physical existence, life and evolution, which is the subject I addressed, and you have failed to respond.
                        Shuny, you said that was a purpose to our existence - there isn't if naturalism is true - period.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          That is just stupid Charles, if you believe that matter and energy are past eternal then they just are. You can not assign a purpose to them. So in that case you can not build anything on that.
                          You once again fail to adress the point. You want to build purpose on something that "just is" but does not have a purpose. It seems a God who "just is" but has not got an ultimate purpose is good enough for you. How would it differ from anything else that "just is" but does not have an ultimate purpose? You are yet to tell us what kind of purpose this can established this way.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            You once again fail to adress the point. You want to build purpose on something that "just is" but does not have a purpose. It seems a God who "just is" but has not got an ultimate purpose is good enough for you. How would it differ from anything else that "just is" but does not have an ultimate purpose? You are yet to tell us what kind of purpose this can established this way.
                            Charles, God being an intelligent Being had purposes, goals or aims. You seem to be asking for a purpose that is external to Him, some reason for His existence - that is just a stupid question. It is like asking the atheist what is the purpose of the universe.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Shuny, you said that was a purpose to our existence - there isn't if naturalism is true - period.
                              This is an assertion of belief on your part, and not supported by objective verifiable evidence.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Charles, God being an intelligent Being had purposes, goals or aims. You seem to be asking for a purpose that is external to Him, some reason for His existence - that is just a stupid question. It is like asking the atheist what is the purpose of the universe.
                                If God has no reason to have those purposes, goals or aims then they have no foundation and do not establish anything other than just choice. If you cannot give a reason then we are back to the just making statements approach. And if you have given up when it comes to providing reasons then you are right that asking for reasons is stupid.
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

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