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Thread: Teleology And Human Ethics...

  1. #431
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Really Tass, either you believe that you can have an effect without a cause or you don't. Which is it?
    Because seer, cause and effect are not fundamental, they are ways of talking about the patterns that we see as the universe evolves in time. Physicists no longer think in terms of cause and effect.

  2. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  3. #432
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Because seer, cause and effect are not fundamental, they are ways of talking about the patterns that we see as the universe evolves in time. Physicists no longer think in terms of cause and effect.
    Seer does because he needs it to support his argument from first cause, i.e. God. In short, his religious presuppositions takes precedence over verified scientific fact.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  4. #433
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Because seer, cause and effect are not fundamental, they are ways of talking about the patterns that we see as the universe evolves in time. Physicists no longer think in terms of cause and effect.
    Jim, either cause and effect exists at this level or it doesn't. There is no middle ground.
    "We can understand hell in its aspect of privation. All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever.” C.S. Lewis

  5. #434
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Seer does because he needs it to support his argument from first cause, i.e. God. In short, his religious presuppositions takes precedence over verified scientific fact.
    But you have effects without a cause. Magical - like little fairies popping in and out of existence...
    "We can understand hell in its aspect of privation. All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever.” C.S. Lewis

  6. #435
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, either cause and effect exists at this level or it doesn't. There is no middle ground.
    Of course, and what physics is explaining is that there is not, that cause and effect are ways of talking about the patterns that we see as the universe evolves in time.

  7. #436
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    But you have effects without a cause. Magical - like little fairies popping in and out of existence...
    ...or invisible, all-powerful deities creating the universe ex nihilo.

    Except that quantum mechanics is tested, verified and understood science whereas the ‘god-did-it’ hypothesis is not.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  8. #437
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    But you have effects without a cause. Magical - like little fairies popping in and out of existence...
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  9. #438
    tWebber
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    Unicorns are fairies?
    Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
    George Horne

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