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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Life after the eclipse (sign of Jonah)

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    So what are you doing to be prepared? Got a bunker or something?
    My bunker is Jesus Christ.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
      What happens on earth/sea isn't a sign. What happens on earth/sea is the fulfillment of what the sign predicted. You don't seem very good at this.
      Scripture Verse: Luke 21

      7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

      © Copyright Original Source



      The disciples asked for signs of the times, and Jesus gave them. I'm very good at reading, unlike you.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
        My bunker is Jesus Christ.
        great! So what are you doing about the sign and rev 12? You made it sound like we would be sorry we didn't believe you so what are you doing that we are not? Jesus is my bunker too.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          great! So what are you doing about the sign and rev 12? You made it sound like we would be sorry we didn't believe you so what are you doing that we are not? Jesus is my bunker too.
          Bunkers won't help anyone.

          Scripture Verse: Revelation 6

          15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

          © Copyright Original Source

          Comment


          • God will make clear what we are to do when the time comes, if we are able to hear His voice.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Darfius
              7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”
              The answer to that question is here:

              Luke 21:20
              And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

              The sea roaring isn't a sign. When has the sea ever not roared?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                The answer to that question is here:

                Luke 21:20
                And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
                Ah, so we can ignore the rest of what Jesus said? Jerusalem will be compassed with armies in the end days, too. Welcome to the glory of double fulfillment. "child named Immanuel"

                The sea roaring isn't a sign. When has the sea ever not roared?
                Wow, now you're openly declaring that the Lord spoke nonsense. Tsunamis, hurricanes and this, oh my.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Darfius
                  Jerusalem will be compassed with armies in the end days, too. Welcome to the glory of double fulfillment.
                  Will they use swords?

                  Luke 21:24
                  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

                  You're the one whose 'interpretation' turns the entire chapter into nonsense. The chronology of the chapter makes it quite clear that the sea roaring occurs after the temple has already been destroyed, so it couldn't possibly be a sign of the coming temple destruction. By denying the chronology of the chapter where some of the events happen before the destruction of Jerusalem and some of the events happen after, you are actually making the exact same mistake as the "preterists" whom you hate so much.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                    Will they use swords?

                    Luke 21:24
                    And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

                    You're the one whose 'interpretation' turns the entire chapter into nonsense. The chronology of the chapter makes it quite clear that the sea roaring occurs after the temple has already been destroyed, so it couldn't possibly be a sign of the coming temple destruction. By denying the chronology of the chapter where some of the events happen before the destruction of Jerusalem and some of the events happen after, you are actually making the exact same mistake as the "preterists" whom you hate so much.
                    This is rambling nonsense. "edge of the sword" is a well known idiom for death.

                    First you said the sea roaring wasn't a sign and now you're attempting to dictate when it happens. You're making it up as you go along and you had the poor fortune of encountering someone who knows both what they're talking about and how to expose such BS.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                      Bunkers won't help anyone.

                      Scripture Verse: Revelation 6

                      15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      exactly, so what is the urgency? You clearly are not trying to save anyone with that attitude of dismissal and mockery, so what do you hope to accomplish by making sure everyone knows about this sign? Whether I believe this is the sign or not makes no difference. I am saved by Christ. I will be taken out in the rapture. I have no fear of what is to come. I have no need to hide in a bunker or do anything at all to prepare other than open my arms and wait for Jesus to come. I don't care about signs. Signs don't change a thing. We are always be be prepared. signs don't matter.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                        I'm curious how you make that leap in logic, outside of the Scripture you provided where you jump between literal and symbolic interpretations. Besides, Jesus said "signs", not sign. He also mentioned earthquakes, famines and "the seas roaring." Did the Mediterranean Sea act real cray cray, too?
                        I think the way to make the correct interpretation is to look for the teaching tradition of the apostles in the early church. That's why I gave the quote from Hippolytus. The church fathers may not be right about everything, but they are when they rely on that tradition, IMO. Hippolytus is one of the earliest to comment on Rev 12. Methodius of Olympus gives extensive commentary in "Symposium." The reason for so many opinions today is that few look to see the early interpretations.
                        The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

                        Comment


                        • Your quote from Hippolytus said effectively nothing.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Darfius
                            First you said the sea roaring wasn't a sign and now you're attempting to dictate when it happens.
                            There is a pretty obvious sequence of events in the text:

                            1. Wars, famines, persecution, etc.
                            2. Jerusalem surrounded by armies
                            3. Destruction of Jerusalem
                            4. Powers of the heavens shaken
                            5. People on earth/sea afraid about what's coming next (the sea roaring)

                            And then Matthew says that the next step is sending out angels with trumpets.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                              Your quote from Hippolytus said effectively nothing.
                              Perhaps you don't believe in the teaching tradition of the apostles? The apostles taught the early church and nobody paid attention?

                              BTW, speaking of different opinions, I think William Craig's comments on N.T Wright are very interesting.

                              On N.T. Wright's View of the Second Coming of Christ, Youtube.

                              https://youtu.be/NjkjjSp27TY
                              Last edited by eschaton; 10-06-2017, 09:22 AM. Reason: spelling
                              The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                              https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

                              Comment


                              • @Eschaton

                                It isn't true that the return of Christ is necessarily associated with the resurrection of the dead. Christ is said to return in Revelation 2-3, and again in Revelation 6 (arguably the same time). The resurrection of the dead isn't mentioned until Revelation 20 -- which even if you take the text completely literally, is at LEAST 3.5 calendar YEARS later (1003.5 if you're a postmillennialist).

                                Comment

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