Announcement

Collapse

Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Life after the eclipse (sign of Jonah)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
    Belief in a future Antichrist is definitely not "orthodox preterism".
    1) you're doing a bit of reading between the lines. Paul never mentions an antichrist.
    2) Even if they can be equated, I don't have to believe in a future Antichrist to agree that he will be revealed before the Lord returns.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      1) you're doing a bit of reading between the lines. Paul never mentions an antichrist.
      More of that preterist integrity! The individual man of sin and the Antichrist clearly aren't the same person! D'oh!

      2) Even if they can be equated, I don't have to believe in a future Antichrist to agree that he will be revealed before the Lord returns.
      Say what? Does that mean you think the Antichrist has already been revealed? Who was he? Stop hiding behind vagueness and make specific claims, man!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
        I have no idea what you are saying. But if you are saying that the trumpets happen before Chapter 7, then that is clearly contrary to the chapter.



        I'm not taking anything literally. I'm just saying that the time periods are present in between various events. I think the whole 3.5 years may refer to many centuries.
        Sorry that I wasn't more clear. Earthly judgments are earthly judgments. As Jesus said;

        Joh_16:33* These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

        Basically, I am saying that Revelation describes earthly life, faith, judgment, and eternity. That is what Jesus explained in the "end of the world." (Mat 13).

        I have a post at Stack Exchange where I explain the "Wisdom Interpretation" further.

        What is an overview of what the kinds of things the beast in Revelation represents?

        https://christianity.stackexchange.c...ation-represen
        The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seanD View Post
          I'm saying being ready to meet our Maker is a given to the faith. Looking for signs and being ready at all times to meet our Maker is not mutually exclusive, and it's such a goofy argument to imply otherwise. I think you know it's goofy, but you're making it a dichotomy just for the sake of arguing. Jesus and Paul took it as a given they'd be ready at all times which is why they gave signs of the Lord's coming anyway as a utility to the faith. Like I said, if you disagree with Jesus and Paul giving the signs then that's on you.
          We seem to be doing a fair bit of talking past each other. I'm not trying to make anything a dichotomy, I'm trying to understand your position so I can properly interact with it. It appears that we both agree that we should always be ready for Christ's return. I don't disagree with Jesus and Paul giving the signs; we disagree over their intended audience.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
            More of that preterist integrity! The individual man of sin and the Antichrist clearly aren't the same person! D'oh!
            Make your case.
            Say what? Does that mean you think the Antichrist has already been revealed? Who was he? Stop hiding behind vagueness and make specific claims, man!
            I can hardly be expected to answer questions before you ask them. How is that "hiding"? Off the top of my head, Nero seems to have fit John's description pretty well. It would seem, given John's language ("it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." "And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."), that this was not some far future event. I appreciate that you feel sufficiently threatened by my posts to go on the attack rather than defend your own failed prophecies, but this isn't an especially important topic to me, and I haven't studied it much in years.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • Originally posted by eschaton
              I have a post at Stack Exchange where I explain the "Wisdom Interpretation" further.
              Just saying that the Beast represents 'the flesh' in this way, which Christians must subdue, seems a bit absurd -- given that the heads and horns are specifically referred to as "kings." Also, the flesh was obviously present even before Satan was cast down, and wouldn't need to rise up out of the sea.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Make your case.
                Stop being an idiot, if that's possible. It's impossible for them to be separate individuals. There's not going to be a "man of sin" who "opposes all that is called God" and demands worship who is different from the dude the Bible calls "the" Antichrist.

                I can hardly be expected to answer questions before you ask them. How is that "hiding"? Off the top of my head, Nero seems to have fit John's description pretty well. It would seem, given John's language ("it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour." "And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."), that this was not some far future event. I appreciate that you feel sufficiently threatened by my posts to go on the attack rather than defend your own failed prophecies, but this isn't an especially important topic to me, and I haven't studied it much in years.
                The question of who the Antichrist was that everyone missed is implied when you say he has already come. Feigning ignorance is for women and children. Man up.

                Nero didn't stand in the temple and proclaim himself God. Nor was he destroyed by the coming of Christ with fire. Wanna try again?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                  Just saying that the Beast represents 'the flesh' in this way, which Christians must subdue, seems a bit absurd -- given that the heads and horns are specifically referred to as "kings." Also, the flesh was obviously present even before Satan was cast down, and wouldn't need to rise up out of the sea.
                  The sea is the battle of faith (people). The horns are referred to as mountains. Satan lives in the hearts of men.
                  Christ is also a mountain and kingdom. (Dan 2)
                  Last edited by eschaton; 10-09-2017, 03:06 PM. Reason: addition
                  The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                    Here we go again. Salvation from what?
                    From bondage to sin.
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                      Stop being an idiot, if that's possible. It's impossible for them to be separate individuals. There's not going to be a "man of sin" who "opposes all that is called God" and demands worship who is different from the dude the Bible calls "the" Antichrist.



                      The question of who the Antichrist was that everyone missed is implied when you say he has already come. Feigning ignorance is for women and children. Man up.
                      I said, "make your case," not "hurl insults."
                      Nero didn't stand in the temple and proclaim himself God. Nor was he destroyed by the coming of Christ with fire. Wanna try again?
                      I find it fascinating how you can introduce all sorts of symbolism to read meaning into your "sign", but insist on a strictly literal interpretation of apocalyptic language. I can see how you might find insulting your opponent easier than presenting a coherent case.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        I said, "make your case," not "hurl insults."
                        Stop whining. I insulted you as I proved you wrong, just like Jesus did. Focus your energy on correcting your behavior.

                        I find it fascinating how you can introduce all sorts of symbolism to read meaning into your "sign", but insist on a strictly literal interpretation of apocalyptic language. I can see how you might find insulting your opponent easier than presenting a coherent case.
                        Symbolism? Alignments aren't "symbolism". John located the sign "in the heavens", so where else should we have looked? The truth of the matter is that literally you don't like the implications of what you read, so you try to allegorize it away.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                          The sea is the battle of faith (people). The horns are referred to as mountains. Satan lives in the hearts of men.
                          Christ is also a mountain and kingdom. (Dan 2)
                          I mean the heads of course. The heads are kings and mountains so the horns and kings are also open to interpretation. All the imagery comes from Daniel. Christ is shown as a mountain and kingdom according to interpretation.

                          Dan 2:44* And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.*
                          Dan 2:45* Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.*
                          The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                          https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

                          Comment


                          • Actually, Christ is interpreted as a horn as well.

                            Psa_18:2* The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
                            Luk_1:69* And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David
                            The Capitol Insurrection And Religion

                            https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...t_bibl_vppi_i0

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                              Stop whining. I insulted you as I proved you wrong, just like Jesus did. Focus your energy on correcting your behavior.
                              Make your case. You have yet to prove diddly.
                              Symbolism? Alignments aren't "symbolism". John located the sign "in the heavens", so where else should we have looked?
                              I wasn't refering to alignments, but to Jesus being "Venus", etc. Surely you don't think that Jesus is literally Venus.
                              The truth of the matter is that literally you don't like the implications of what you read, so you try to allegorize it away.
                              Attempted psychoanalysis duly noted.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • Scripture Verse: 1 John

                                1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

                                © Copyright Original Source

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X