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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Life after the eclipse (sign of Jonah)

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
    Scripture Verse: 1 John 1

    6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Walking in the light does not preclude stumbling.

    The blood of Jesus purifying is from all our sins means having all our sins forgiven because of Christ's sacrifice, it doesn't mean that we stop sinning.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      You should probably leave the reading of minds to someone more qualified. I'm not committed to any end-times view.
      So even worse than a preterist. You're lukewarm!

      But not our body of sin and death, which will happen only when we get our resurrection bodies (1 Cor 15).
      He says "you" have been set free from sin and death, making no distinction between spirit and body. Our bodies still suffer from the PENALTY of sin, but we are no longer slaves to committing sin.

      But our flesh is still there tempting us and trying to make us fall. And occasionally we all fall.
      Some of us dive.

      A mind governed by the Spirit, but not a body governed by the Spirit. Paul's statement about his body being under the law of sin in 7:25 still applies. What's been freed from the law of sin is our minds, but our flesh/bodies are still captive under it.
      Now you're just making stuff up. No dichotomy exists in Scripture between "the mind and the body." The dichotomy is between the spiritual man and the man governed by the flesh. Paul says his sinful nature is a slave to sin. But we are to crucify the old man/sinful nature.
      Last edited by Darfius; 09-12-2017, 05:17 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
        A command is not a promise.
        The Lord wouldn't command us to do the impossible.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          Walking in the light does not preclude stumbling.

          The blood of Jesus purifying is from all our sins means having all our sins forgiven because of Christ's sacrifice, it doesn't mean that we stop sinning.
          How many stumbles does it take to earn the verdict of drunk? Drunkards can't inherit the kingdom.

          Purifying is a process. A fiat declaring our crimes forgiven is a single act. Save what you learned in Sunday school doctrines taught by men and stick to the Bible.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Darfius View Post
            Now you're just making stuff up. No dichotomy exists in Scripture between "the mind and the body." The dichotomy is between the spiritual man and the man governed by the flesh. Paul says his sinful nature is a slave to sin. But we are to crucify the old man/sinful nature.


            Paul is making a distinction between the mind and the body in the very passage that you were quoting in post #56.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Darfius View Post
              The Lord wouldn't command us to do the impossible.
              The Old Testament law is nothing but the Lord commanding men to do the impossible.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                How many stumbles does it take to earn the verdict of drunk? Drunkards can't inherit the kingdom.
                It takes as many stumbles as it takes for you to give up and stop getting up again.

                Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                Purifying is a process. A fiat declaring our crimes forgiven is a single act. Save what you learned in Sunday school doctrines taught by men and stick to the Bible.
                We are given the benefits of Christ's sacrifice whenever we go to the Eucharist or confess our sins. Christ's sacrifice was a one time thing, but it's benefits are given to us as many times as we need it.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post


                  Paul is making a distinction between the mind and the body in the very passage that you were quoting in post #56.
                  "The flesh" is a frequent appellation used in Scripture for the "sinful nature." Paul isn't saying that his arms and legs make him want to sin.

                  Scripture Verse: Galatians 5

                  16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

                  19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  Which body part is responsible for idolatry? The calf? The tricep? Context, m'boy! Context!

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                    The Old Testament law is nothing but the Lord commanding men to do the impossible.
                    Name the law they were physically incapable of keeping.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                      It takes as many stumbles as it takes for you to give up and stop getting up again.
                      So theoretically the devil is just stumbling and can claim Christ's sacrifice for himself?

                      We are given the benefits of Christ's sacrifice whenever we go to the Eucharist or confess our sins. Christ's sacrifice was a one time thing, but it's benefits are given to us as many times as we need it.
                      More made up doctrine nowhere to be found in Scripture. In fact, Hebrews says that if we continue to sin and thereby defile Christ, there no longer exists a sacrifice for sin. The exact opposite of what you're saying.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                        Name the law they were physically incapable of keeping.
                        They were spiritually incapable of keeping a single one of them.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                          "The flesh" is a frequent appellation used in Scripture for the "sinful nature." Paul isn't saying that his arms and legs make him want to sin.
                          You would have a point if it were not for the fact that Paul qualified what he meant by "flesh" in Romans 7-8:

                          Scripture Verse: Romans 7

                          23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                          Scripture Verse: Galatians 5

                          16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

                          19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

                          © Copyright Original Source



                          Which body part is responsible for idolatry? The calf? The tricep? Context, m'boy! Context!
                          It's the body part that's responsible for all of our sensory inputs, emotions and instincts. You know, the brain?

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            They were spiritually incapable of keeping a single one of them.
                            The Law didn't deal with people's feelings and intents. It dealt with actions. Actions that could be undertaken. You made the false claim that they couldn't be undertaken.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              You would have a point if it were not for the fact that Paul qualified what he meant by "flesh" in Romans 7-8:

                              Scripture Verse: Romans 7

                              23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              Now that you're officially claiming our bodies compel us to sin, it's abundantly clear how stupid you are. So what exactly takes place when we resist a temptation? Our brain which otherwise is causing us to sin sends itself a conflicting order? Jesus had a body. Why didn't He sin? Just boatloads of stupid.

                              Paul was using figurative language to describe the dichotomy between the higher self and lower self. The self God made versus the self we've made of ourselves through constant disobedience.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                                The Law didn't deal with people's feelings and intents. It dealt with actions. Actions that could be undertaken. You made the false claim that they couldn't be undertaken.
                                Scripture Verse: Matthew 5

                                27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

                                © Copyright Original Source

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