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Thread: Life after the eclipse (sign of Jonah)

  1. #171
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darfius
    7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”
    The answer to that question is here:

    Luke 21:20
    And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    The sea roaring isn't a sign. When has the sea ever not roared?

  2. #172
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The answer to that question is here:

    Luke 21:20
    And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
    Ah, so we can ignore the rest of what Jesus said? Jerusalem will be compassed with armies in the end days, too. Welcome to the glory of double fulfillment. "child named Immanuel"

    The sea roaring isn't a sign. When has the sea ever not roared?
    Wow, now you're openly declaring that the Lord spoke nonsense. Tsunamis, hurricanes and this, oh my.

  3. #173
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darfius
    Jerusalem will be compassed with armies in the end days, too. Welcome to the glory of double fulfillment.
    Will they use swords?

    Luke 21:24
    And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    You're the one whose 'interpretation' turns the entire chapter into nonsense. The chronology of the chapter makes it quite clear that the sea roaring occurs after the temple has already been destroyed, so it couldn't possibly be a sign of the coming temple destruction. By denying the chronology of the chapter where some of the events happen before the destruction of Jerusalem and some of the events happen after, you are actually making the exact same mistake as the "preterists" whom you hate so much.

  4. #174
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    Will they use swords?

    Luke 21:24
    And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    You're the one whose 'interpretation' turns the entire chapter into nonsense. The chronology of the chapter makes it quite clear that the sea roaring occurs after the temple has already been destroyed, so it couldn't possibly be a sign of the coming temple destruction. By denying the chronology of the chapter where some of the events happen before the destruction of Jerusalem and some of the events happen after, you are actually making the exact same mistake as the "preterists" whom you hate so much.
    This is rambling nonsense. "edge of the sword" is a well known idiom for death.

    First you said the sea roaring wasn't a sign and now you're attempting to dictate when it happens. You're making it up as you go along and you had the poor fortune of encountering someone who knows both what they're talking about and how to expose such BS.

  5. #175
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darfius View Post
    Bunkers won't help anyone.

    Scripture Verse: Revelation 6

    15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

    © Copyright Original Source

    exactly, so what is the urgency? You clearly are not trying to save anyone with that attitude of dismissal and mockery, so what do you hope to accomplish by making sure everyone knows about this sign? Whether I believe this is the sign or not makes no difference. I am saved by Christ. I will be taken out in the rapture. I have no fear of what is to come. I have no need to hide in a bunker or do anything at all to prepare other than open my arms and wait for Jesus to come. I don't care about signs. Signs don't change a thing. We are always be be prepared. signs don't matter.

  6. Amen Jedidiah, Christianbookworm amen'd this post.
  7. #176
    tWebber eschaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darfius View Post
    I'm curious how you make that leap in logic, outside of the Scripture you provided where you jump between literal and symbolic interpretations. Besides, Jesus said "signs", not sign. He also mentioned earthquakes, famines and "the seas roaring." Did the Mediterranean Sea act real cray cray, too?
    I think the way to make the correct interpretation is to look for the teaching tradition of the apostles in the early church. That's why I gave the quote from Hippolytus. The church fathers may not be right about everything, but they are when they rely on that tradition, IMO. Hippolytus is one of the earliest to comment on Rev 12. Methodius of Olympus gives extensive commentary in "Symposium." The reason for so many opinions today is that few look to see the early interpretations.

  8. #177
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Your quote from Hippolytus said effectively nothing.

  9. #178
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darfius
    First you said the sea roaring wasn't a sign and now you're attempting to dictate when it happens.
    There is a pretty obvious sequence of events in the text:

    1. Wars, famines, persecution, etc.
    2. Jerusalem surrounded by armies
    3. Destruction of Jerusalem
    4. Powers of the heavens shaken
    5. People on earth/sea afraid about what's coming next (the sea roaring)

    And then Matthew says that the next step is sending out angels with trumpets.

  10. #179
    tWebber eschaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    Your quote from Hippolytus said effectively nothing.
    Perhaps you don't believe in the teaching tradition of the apostles? The apostles taught the early church and nobody paid attention?

    BTW, speaking of different opinions, I think William Craig's comments on N.T Wright are very interesting.

    On N.T. Wright's View of the Second Coming of Christ, Youtube.

    https://youtu.be/NjkjjSp27TY
    Last edited by eschaton; 10-06-2017 at 08:22 AM. Reason: spelling

  11. #180
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    @Eschaton

    It isn't true that the return of Christ is necessarily associated with the resurrection of the dead. Christ is said to return in Revelation 2-3, and again in Revelation 6 (arguably the same time). The resurrection of the dead isn't mentioned until Revelation 20 -- which even if you take the text completely literally, is at LEAST 3.5 calendar YEARS later (1003.5 if you're a postmillennialist).

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