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Eschatology 201 Guidelines

This area of the forum is primarily for Christian theists to discuss orthodox views of Eschatology. Other theist participation is welcome within that framework, but only within orthodoxy. Posts from nontheists that do not promote atheism or seek to undermine the faith of others will be permitted at the Moderator's discretion - such posters should contact the area moderators before posting.


Without turning this forum into a 'hill of foreskins' (Joshua 5:3), I believe we can still have fun with this 'sensitive' topic.

However, don't be misled, dispensationalism has only partly to do with circumcision issues. So, let's not forget about Innocence, Conscience, Promises, Kingdoms and so on.

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

Millennialism- post-, pre- a-

Futurism, Historicism, Idealism, and Preterism, or just your garden variety Zionism.

From the tribulation to the anichrist. Whether your tastes run from Gary DeMar to Tim LaHaye or anywhere in between, your input is welcome here.

OK folks, let's roll!

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Life after the eclipse (sign of Jonah)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
    I don't sin very much if at all these days.
    Huh. I've always been taught (even when I was a staunch futurist) that the closer one gets to God, the more one recognizes how far one is from perfection.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #47
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Huh. I've always been taught (even when I was a staunch futurist) that the closer one gets to God, the more one recognizes how far one is from perfection.
      1 John 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Darfius View Post
        I don't sin very much if at all these days. But I never could have gotten to this point without Jesus and I will always need Him. In fact, one of the rewards of obeying Him is a deeper knowledge and understanding of my need for Him than those who claim to love Him and yet do not what He says. He is indeed the only way to stop sinning.
        Just to clue you in.

        You are still a sinner and you still sin. Constantly. That's what it is to be human in a fallen state. Jesus is there to take away your sins.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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        • #49
          The opposite of sin is not virtue. You can do many virtuous things and still be a sinner. Faith is the opposite state to sin. That does not mean that one who has faith in the lord can not sin and still be tempted, but it does mean that his nature will be made more like christ over the course of his life. Then comes death and judgement.
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          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Just to clue you in.

            You are still a sinner and you still sin. Constantly. That's what it is to be human in a fallen state. Jesus is there to take away your sins.
            Just to clue you in.

            He who continues to sin is a slave to sin. That's what it is to be a human who chooses a fallen state. Jesus is here to help you stop sinning.

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            • #51
              But I do not what I want to do. Truly I am wretched.
              St. Paul.
              Yet paul was saved.
              As was peter who denied christ three times and excluded the jewish believers at one point.

              When christ says be ye perfect he pointed out how we were not perfect. He will make us perfect.
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              • #52
                Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                Just to clue you in.

                He who continues to sin is a slave to sin.
                And as Christians we are simultaneously both slaves to sin and free in Christ.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  And as Christians we are simultaneously both slaves to sin and free in Christ.
                  Cite the verse saying that please.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                    Cite the verse saying that please.
                    Source: Romans 7:21-25 ESV

                    21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Blue text is Paul describing our renewed minds in Christ, red text is him describing our bodies still being slaves to sin.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                      Cite the verse saying that please.
                      Cite the verse where we're promised that we'll be able to stop sinning on this side of eternity please.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                        Source: Romans 7:21-25 ESV

                        21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

                        © Copyright Original Source



                        Blue text is Paul describing our renewed minds in Christ, red text is him describing our bodies still being slaves to sin.
                        You should have kept reading. But since you're probably a preterist, I know you have a problem with context.

                        Scripture Verse: Romans 8:

                        8 Therefore [showing a continuation of thought from the preceding chapter you cited], there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

                        5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

                        9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

                        © Copyright Original Source

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                          Cite the verse where we're promised that we'll be able to stop sinning on this side of eternity please.
                          Scripture Verse: Matthew 5:

                          48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

                          © Copyright Original Source

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                          • #58
                            Scripture Verse: 1 John 1

                            6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

                            © Copyright Original Source

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                              You should have kept reading. But since you're probably a preterist, I know you have a problem with context.
                              You should probably leave the reading of minds to someone more qualified. I'm not committed to any end-times view.

                              Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                              Scripture Verse: Romans 8:

                              8 Therefore [showing a continuation of thought from the preceding chapter you cited], there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              But not our body of sin and death, which will happen only when we get our resurrection bodies (1 Cor 15).

                              Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                              Scripture Verse: Romans 8:

                              3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              But our flesh is still there tempting us and trying to make us fall. And occasionally we all fall.

                              Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                              Scripture Verse: Romans 8:

                              5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

                              9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              A mind governed by the Spirit, but not a body governed by the Spirit. Paul's statement about his body being under the law of sin in 7:25 still applies. What's been freed from the law of sin is our minds, but our flesh/bodies are still captive under it.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Darfius View Post
                                Scripture Verse: Matthew 5:

                                48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

                                © Copyright Original Source

                                A command is not a promise.

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