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Thread: Rush Limbaugh: Hurricanes are a liberal conspiracy for promoting climate change

  1. #311
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea of red View Post
    Precisely. Public interest in black hole physics is not exactly high, so things like information loss are not controversies that can be politicized. Climate change OTOH, is something that effects public policy in a multitude of ways, so it's a given that some scientists are going to be involved in those discussions. Like it or not, though the consensus view that man is the driving force behind the recent warming is the one that has to be the default, as it's overwhelming supported by almost all working Earth scientists.
    Yep.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sea of Red
    Those who are skeptics that wish to overturn the science itself should settle the issue on the scientific battlefield, not the court of public opinion -- where people can't make heads or tails of the underlying science anyways. That's what every other scientist that overturned a consensus did, and they should be no exception to that histroical standard.
    Yeah, except that the problem we have is that it's not solely the skeptics who drag this into the court of public opinion. For example, calling dissenting voices 'deniers' is rhetoric and labelling that attempts to divert from the issue to the (supposed) character of the dissenters.

    Secondly, the prevailing (political) view of the science makes it hard for dissenting views to be fairly heard; and tempts scientists to lean to the consensus view. Scientists are people, and few people can be completely objective, especially when their personal interests are concerned.
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  2. #312
    tWebber Sea of red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    Yeah, except that the problem we have is that it's not solely the skeptics who drag this into the court of public opinion. For example, calling dissenting voices 'deniers' is rhetoric and labelling that attempts to divert from the issue to the (supposed) character of the dissenters.
    As someone that's followed the issue closely, I can say both sides have their jerks. There's a case to be made that some of the predictions of current climate modeling simulations are wrong, or not supported by the evidence -- some might call it alarmism. That have I have no problem with and I agree we must research those issues further. But those that seriously question whether the recent warming is the result of an increased greenhouse effect brought on by humans are just shills out for a money grab. It's really only the same three or four guys every time: Lindzen, Spencer, Christy, and one or two others I've probably forgotten.
    Secondly, the prevailing (political) view of the science makes it hard for dissenting views to be fairly heard; and tempts scientists to lean to the consensus view. Scientists are people, and few people can be completely objective, especially when their personal interests are concerned.
    I'm afraid that's simply human nature we're countering here. All we can do is make our best judgements and try to inform ourselves.

  3. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  4. #313
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    But the Christians were wrong in their condemnation of Copernican theory and its extension by Bruno. Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges of denying several core Catholic doctrines. The Church was doing then what many Evangelicals do today, i.e. erroneously subordinating scientific knowledge and scientific experiment to religious presuppositions.
    Those charges of heresy had little or nothing to do with Bruno's remarks about the nature of the universe or anything to do with science as some today try to make it out to be.

    I'm always still in trouble again

  5. #314
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassmoron View Post
    Oh right! Your bible Breitbart is known for its coverage of science.

    As per Evolution, Climate Change is beyond debate. I suggest you educate yourself.

    https://climate.nasa.gov/


    ...and if they're not wrong?
    Insisting that a hypothesis "is beyond debate" is unscientific. I thought you were a believer in the scientific process?

    But I do like how you try to subtly shift the burden of proof. Does that work for religious debates, too? "What if Christians aren't wrong?" Are you convinced now?
    Last edited by Mountain Man; Today at 11:54 AM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  6. #315
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    Agree. My problem with climate science is that I feel that both sides are playing politics.
    Maybe that's just part of the nature of the issue - climate changes are going to affect us all, as are solutions (if any), so it's going to be political. Other areas of science are perhaps as immediate to the broader public, so controversy there is less inclined to be politicised.
    The problem is that for one side, the solutions are almost entirely political, like the Paris agreement which was designed to kneecap the US to make it easier for other countries to compete with us economically. It has nothing to do with saving the planet.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. #316
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    But the Christians were wrong in their condemnation of Copernican theory and its extension by Bruno. Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges of denying several core Catholic doctrines. The Church was doing then what many Evangelicals do today, i.e. erroneously subordinating scientific knowledge and scientific experiment to religious presuppositions.
    Well who was Capernicus to question the scientific consensus about the solar system?



    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Why do you dispute the scientific consensus

  8. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  9. #317
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassmoron View Post
    But the Christians were wrong in their condemnation of Copernican theory and its extension by Bruno. Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges of denying several core Catholic doctrines. The Church was doing then what many Evangelicals do today, i.e. erroneously subordinating scientific knowledge and scientific experiment to religious presuppositions.
    Ironically, the prevailing scientific belief at the time was that geocentrism was "beyond debate". In other words, scientists like Copernicus, Bruno, and Galileo were in conflict with "The Consensus", that hallowed body that you put so much faith in. If you had been alive at the time, you would have been screaming for them to be burned at the stake, too.

    But contrary to what some believe, what got them in trouble was when they tried to turn it into a religious matter after the Church told them to take it up with their fellow scientists. In other words, the Church basically said, "Prove it scientifically, then we can talk." In the case of Bruno, Wikipedia informs me that "Beginning in 1593, Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges including denial of several core Catholic doctrines, including eternal damnation, the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, the virginity of Mary, and transubstantiation. Bruno's pantheism was also a matter of grave concern, as was his teaching of the transmigration of the soul (reincarnation)," so nothing to do with his scientific hypothesis.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #318
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea of red View Post
    Perfectly fine, but until they win the court of opinion of their peers, they should not be treated as equals in the public discussion either. They most prove their ideas like every other scientist had too, instead of playing politics.

    If they are trying to "win the court of opinion" then they ARE playing politics. Science isn't about opinion. It is about fact.

  11. Amen Mountain Man, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.

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