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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    You've got to come up with some new lines there OBP. Boaring!
    It's not a line, Jim. Perhaps you could try not posting things that go all the way past absurdly wrong to amusing.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Copernicus was a scientist, unlike most theists . . .


      Bob was a builder, unlike most theists...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        The geocentric model was the science of the day. They even had observable evidence and mathematical models that confirmed it. Copernicus just questioned the science of the day and came up with a simpler model that explained the observations.
        The geocentric model was the unquestioned religion-based model of the day...not science as we understand it to be. As Copernicus’s near contemporary Martin Luther said:

        "There is talk of a new astrologer who wants to prove that the earth moves and goes around instead of the sky, the sun, the moon, just as if somebody were moving in a carriage or ship might hold that he was sitting still and at rest while the earth and the trees walked and moved. But that is how things are nowadays: when a man wishes to be clever he must needs invent something special, and the way he does it must needs be the best! The fool wants to turn the whole art of astronomy upside-down. However, as Holy Scripture tells us, so did Joshua bid the sun to stand still and not the earth." - Luther's Tablebook (Tischreden)

        There’s your science for you.

        Luther sounds like our very own Sparko, with his sarcastic, utterly wrong, fact-denying ridicule.
        Last edited by Tassman; 09-22-2017, 12:26 AM.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          "Settled science" is just another way of invoking "The Consensus". Who says, "It's settled science that the Moon orbits the Earth"? Nobody, because the evidence speaks for itself. This is not the case with "global warming". If it was then "scientists" wouldn't be forced to play fast and loose with the data.
          Yes it is the case with "global warming", this is the point.

          And to say that "there is no verifiable evidence supporting Christianity" is astoundingly ignorant, like saying, "There is no verifiable evidence that George Washington was the first President of the United States."
          There is considerable of evidence supporting George Washington as first president of the USA. There is none supporting the alleged miraculous events of Jesus’ life other than hearsay recorded c. 40+years after his death.
          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
            Yes it is the case with "global warming", this is the point.
            And yet you're forced to resort to the weak "consensus" and "settled science" rationalizations because you know the "adjusted" data and hilariously wrong models and predictions are unconvincing in and of themselves.

            Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
            There is considerable of evidence supporting George Washington as first president of the USA. There is none supporting the alleged miraculous events of Jesus’ life other than hearsay recorded c. 40+years after his death.
            Ah, it's the "Show me the evidence! Oh, wait, not that evidence!" routine.

            Let's assume you're right, that no eyewitness accounts were written down until 40-years after the Resurrection. How is that not evidence? You do realize that within 40-years is considered extremely early by ancient standards, don't you? Actually, 40-years is the extreme outside range -- the fact that none of the gospels record the destruction of the temple in 70AD is significant -- and there is evidence of an oral tradition that began within months of the Resurrection.

            So, yeah, like I said, you're astoundingly ignorant. I'd love it if some of you brainless wonders would actually study the history of Christianity if only because I'd be thrilled to see you guys present an informed argument for once.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              The geocentric model was the unquestioned religion-based model of the day...not science as we understand it to be. As Copernicus’s near contemporary Martin Luther said:

              "There is talk of a new astrologer who wants to prove that the earth moves and goes around instead of the sky, the sun, the moon, just as if somebody were moving in a carriage or ship might hold that he was sitting still and at rest while the earth and the trees walked and moved. But that is how things are nowadays: when a man wishes to be clever he must needs invent something special, and the way he does it must needs be the best! The fool wants to turn the whole art of astronomy upside-down. However, as Holy Scripture tells us, so did Joshua bid the sun to stand still and not the earth." - Luther's Tablebook (Tischreden)

              There’s your science for you.

              Luther sounds like our very own Sparko, with his sarcastic, utterly wrong, fact-denying ridicule.
              you truly are a moron, Tassman. The geocentric model was not invented by Christians. The greeks used it hundreds of years before Jesus. It was early scientists who came up with it from observations. They even calculated the orbits of the planets.
              Last edited by Sparko; 09-22-2017, 09:27 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                you truly are a moron, Tassman. The geocentric model was not invented by Christians. The greeks used hundreds of years before Jesus. It was early scientists who came up with it from observations. They even calculated the orbits of the planets.
                C'mon Sparko... don't you know Polycarp invented Apollo's Chariot?
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • Speaking of Galileo, it's a complicated story, or at least far more complicated and nuanced than the "science vs. religion" dichotomy that idiots like Tass and Jimmy think it is. The following article is well worth reading.

                  Here's the summary:

                  Source: Answers in Genesis

                  The 17th century controversy between Galileo and the Vatican is examined. Fifteen theses are advanced, with supporting evidence, to show that the Galileo affair cannot serve as an argument for any position on the relation of religion and science. Contrary to legend, both Galileo and the Copernican system were well regarded by church officials. Galileo was the victim of his own arrogance, the envy of his colleagues and the politics of Pope Urban VIII. He was not accused of criticising the Bible, but disobeying a papal decree.

                  https://answersingenesis.org/creatio...c-hagiography/

                  © Copyright Original Source


                  Then there's this interesting quote: "Only a few scientists living in Galileo’s time confessed publicly that they followed Copernicus. Some did so secretly, but most denied the Copernican system," and "The Order of the Jesuits, who were behind the trial against Galileo, included the leading scientists of that day."

                  Consensus, baby!
                  Last edited by Mountain Man; 09-22-2017, 11:02 AM.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    you truly are a moron, Tassman. The geocentric model was not invented by Christians. The greeks used it hundreds of years before Jesus. It was early scientists who came up with it from observations. They even calculated the orbits of the planets.
                    It is not a matter of 'who invented it?' It is a fact the Martin Luther and many if not most Christians believed it, as well as a literal Genesis Creation relying on the testimony of the Church Fathers.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-22-2017, 12:00 PM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      It is not a matter of 'who invented it?' It is a fact the Martin Luther and many if not most Christians believed it, as well as a literal Genesis Creation relying on the testimony of the Church Fathers.
                      And if you lived at the time, you would have believed it too, along with 99.9% of the rest of the population. Reguardless of what your belief system was because most cultures tended to believe the earth was stationary.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Speaking of Galileo, it's a complicated story, or at least far more complicated and nuanced than the "science vs. religion" dichotomy that idiots like Tass and Jimmy think it is. The following article is well worth reading.

                        Here's the summary:

                        Source: Answers in Genesis

                        The 17th century controversy between Galileo and the Vatican is examined. Fifteen theses are advanced, with supporting evidence, to show that the Galileo affair cannot serve as an argument for any position on the relation of religion and science. Contrary to legend, both Galileo and the Copernican system were well regarded by church officials. Galileo was the victim of his own arrogance, the envy of his colleagues and the politics of Pope Urban VIII. He was not accused of criticising the Bible, but disobeying a papal decree.

                        https://answersingenesis.org/creatio...c-hagiography/

                        © Copyright Original Source


                        Then there's this interesting quote: "Only a few scientists living in Galileo’s time confessed publicly that they followed Copernicus. Some did so secretly, but most denied the Copernican system," and "The Order of the Jesuits, who were behind the trial against Galileo, included the leading scientists of that day."

                        Consensus, baby!
                        Its not all that complicated MM, Galileo was tried by the church for heresy. Btw, do you know what the Papal decree was that Galileo disobeyed; because you didn't mention it?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          It is not a matter of 'who invented it?' It is a fact the Martin Luther and many if not most Christians believed it, as well as a literal Genesis Creation relying on the testimony of the Church Fathers.
                          Gee Shunya, but that reasoning we can conclude that the current Heliocentric model is a religious view since most Christians believe in it today.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Speaking of Galileo, it's a complicated story, or at least far more complicated and nuanced than the "science vs. religion" dichotomy that idiots like Tass and Jimmy think it is. The following article is well worth reading.

                            Here's the summary:

                            Source: Answers in Genesis

                            The 17th century controversy between Galileo and the Vatican is examined. Fifteen theses are advanced, with supporting evidence, to show that the Galileo affair cannot serve as an argument for any position on the relation of religion and science. Contrary to legend, both Galileo and the Copernican system were well regarded by church officials. Galileo was the victim of his own arrogance, the envy of his colleagues and the politics of Pope Urban VIII. He was not accused of criticising the Bible, but disobeying a papal decree.

                            https://answersingenesis.org/creatio...c-hagiography/

                            © Copyright Original Source


                            Then there's this interesting quote: "Only a few scientists living in Galileo’s time confessed publicly that they followed Copernicus. Some did so secretly, but most denied the Copernican system," and "The Order of the Jesuits, who were behind the trial against Galileo, included the leading scientists of that day."

                            Consensus, baby!
                            AnswersinGenesis facepalm3.gif

                            Some folks will not learn.

                            While the issue is considerably more complicated than is often portrayed the simple fact is that someone is not threatened with facing charges of heresy and going before the Inquisition unless there is a religious element involved.

                            The early Church Fathers picked the Ptolemaic model precisely because it matched up with what they thought the Bible taught and flatly rejected other models (including Euclid's and other heliocentric models) because they thought they didn't align with what Scripture taught.

                            It is a profoundly instructional lesson about the hazards of trying to use the Bible as a science text book, one, that has, unfortunately, not been learned by far too many.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              AnswersinGenesis [ATTACH=CONFIG]24156[/ATTACH]

                              Some folks will not learn.

                              While the issue is considerably more complicated than is often portrayed the simple fact is that someone is not threatened with facing charges of heresy and going before the Inquisition unless there is a religious element involved.

                              The early Church Fathers picked the Ptolemaic model precisely because it matched up with what they thought the Bible taught and flatly rejected other models (including Euclid's and other heliocentric models) because they thought they didn't align with what Scripture taught.

                              It is a profoundly instructional lesson about the hazards of trying to use the Bible as a science text book, one, that has, unfortunately, not been learned by far too many.
                              Why do I get the feeling you saw the source and then ignorantly rattled off your response without even clicking the link? Because what you wrote above doesn't actually contradict anything in the article.

                              You know, I started to compose a longer rebuttal, but what's the point? All I can say is, don't be a dumbass and just read the damn article, OK?
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                                Galileo was tried by the church for heresy.
                                Yes, he was, but do you know why? If you read the article then you would know the answer.

                                I'll give you a hint: It wasn't his science that got him in trouble. "The Court of Inquisition did not accuse Galileo of teaching against the Bible, but of disobeying a papal decree."

                                Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                                Btw, do you know what the Papal decree was that Galileo disobeyed; because you didn't mention it?
                                I didn't mention it because I just assumed that, you know, people would read the article I linked to? But looks like 0-for-2 so far between you and rogue.

                                Anyway, let's go to the source: "Galileo obtained the right to print his major work Dialogo from the pope personally, with approval to make some minor corrections if necessary. Galileo cleverly circumvented papal censorship, and put [Pope] Urban’s main argument for the Copernican system (!) into the mouth of the fool ‘Simplicio,’ who, in the Dialogo of three scientists, always asks the silly questions and defends the Ptolemaic view of the world."
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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