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Thread: John 20:28, My Lord and My God

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    ". . . know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides Me there is no Saviour. . . ." -- Isaiah 43:10-11.
    He was addressing the Jews herein NOT Followers of Jesus but followers of Moses & The Law!
    So as Jesus had not yet been and gone to become "saviour" he was the only one until He sent Jesus to do that job.
    So please get the context right.
    BU

  2. #22
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bibleuser View Post
    He was addressing the Jews herein NOT Followers of Jesus but followers of Moses & The Law!
    So as Jesus had not yet been and gone to become "saviour" he was the only one until He sent Jesus to do that job.
    So please get the context right.
    BU
    Since when? Did Jehovah lie? What did the Apostle Peter argue regarding all the prophets calling Jesus? ". . . To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins. . . . " -- Acts 10:43.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  3. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Since when? Did Jehovah lie? What did the Apostle Peter argue regarding all the prophets calling Jesus? ". . . To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins. . . . " -- Acts 10:43.
    He does not, You do not grasp the meaning of the texts.

    In arguing that way you do not point to the later prophecy of Obadiah, verse 21 (AV; AS; RS), which reads: “And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S.” Please, note here that there are other saviors besides the Lord Jehovah. Also you do not point to the following scriptures that speak of other saviors: “And the LORD gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians.” (2*Ki. 13:5, AV) “According to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.” (Neh. 9:27, AV) “And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts .*.*. and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.” (Isa. 19:20, AV) So Jehovah can raise up others to act as saviors as many as he likes too.

    Saviour is a relative term understood in context whom it is talking about!
    BU

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bibleuser View Post
    He does not, You do not grasp the meaning of the texts.

    In arguing that way you do not point to the later prophecy of Obadiah, verse 21 (AV; AS; RS), which reads: “And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’S.” Please, note here that there are other saviors besides the Lord Jehovah. Also you do not point to the following scriptures that speak of other saviors: “And the LORD gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians.” (2*Ki. 13:5, AV) “According to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.” (Neh. 9:27, AV) “And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts .*.*. and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.” (Isa. 19:20, AV) So Jehovah can raise up others to act as saviors as many as he likes too.

    Saviour is a relative term understood in context whom it is talking about!
    BU
    Peter's argument was all the prophets would speak of Him. Not just one. What name does all the prophets use for which Peter argued (Acts 10:43)? That is the issue which you did not address.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  5. #25
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bibleuser View Post
    He was addressing the Jews herein NOT Followers of Jesus but followers of Moses & The Law!
    So as Jesus had not yet been and gone to become "saviour" he was the only one until He sent Jesus to do that job.
    So please get the context right.
    BU
    But "before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me." so Jesus is not a God then. Yet John 1 says he is. If Jesus is a God and God said that no Gods would be formed before or after him, then Jesus must be a false God? Why do you follow a false God, BU?

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    tWebber
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    It might be noted that the name Lazarus, Λάζαρος, is Greek form of Hebrew name Eliezer, a.o. the name of Abraham's servant.

    the name Eliezer , אֱלִיעֶֽזֶר, does mean "my God is help" -- in Greek it would be " ὁ θεός μου βοηθός "

    So Thomas' saying : Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου might well refer to the story of Lazarus

    (the number of Eliezer's name is 318, the number of Abram's trained servants (initiates) mentioned in Genesis 14:14, with which Abram gained victory over the four kings in favor of the five, about which Psalms 110 was written, from which the sitting of Jesus'sitting at the right hand of God is derived)

  7. #27
    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Sparko's right. It's time for the "freaking nuts" button.
    freaking nuts.jpg

  8. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.
  9. #28
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    Sparko's right. It's time for the "freaking nuts" button.
    freaking nuts.jpg
    SPAJFN! Just rolls off the tongue!

  10. #29
    tWebber
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    But "before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me." so Jesus is not a God then. Yet John 1 says he is. If Jesus is a God and God said that no Gods would be formed before or after him, then Jesus must be a false God? Why do you follow a false God, BU?
    you might reconsideer John 1, and not in some crooked translation, but in the original Greek

    http://www.septuagint.org/NT/John/1

    Nowhere it says that Jesus is or was God.

    John 1:14,
    Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο = and the word becmae flesh

    it refers back to the word mentioned in v. 1

    The word of which the following verses say that it is not some dead thing, like a Christian dogma, but that there is light in it, a light the darkness can not catch.

    Now light is Hebrew "or" -- first mentioning in Genesis 1:3 and of which Genesis 1:4 says that God saw the light to be good.

    Good = Hebrew "tov", with gematria 17,

    153, the number mentioned in John 21:11, = trianggle 17

    Now the third "tov" of Genesis, mentioned in Genesis 1:12, is the 153rd word from the beginning,

    In Genesis 1:11 the earth was asked to sprout forth "etz pri oseh pri" (fruit tree that makes fruit) , but in Genesis 1:12 it is stated that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri" (tree making fruit)

    If the earth had done what God had asked, in bringing forth "etz pri oseh pri" , then the "tov" in Genesis 1:12 would have been the 154th word. (which wouldn't have been good at all, since God saw it to be good that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri")

    This being the big secret of scripture.

    Also worded as "felix culpa"

    Without sin there is also no forgiveness of sin.

    Lazarus ( = Eliezer) being the one to figure out these things
    Last edited by Geert van den Bos; 01-18-2018 at 11:48 AM.

  11. #30
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
    you might reconsideer John 1, and not in some crooked translation, but in the original Greek

    http://www.septuagint.org/NT/John/1

    Nowhere it says that Jesus is or was God.

    John 1:14,
    Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο = and the word becmae flesh

    it refers back to the word mentioned in v. 1

    The word of which the following verses say that it is not some dead thing, like a Christian dogma, but that there is light in it, a light the darkness can not catch.

    Now light is Hebrew "or" -- first mentioning in Genesis 1:3 and of which Genesis 1:4 says that God saw the light to be good.

    Good = Hebrew "tov", with gematria 17,

    153, the number mentioned in John 21:11, = trianggle 17

    Now the third "tov" of Genesis, mentioned in Genesis 1:12, is the 153rd word from the beginning,

    In Genesis 1:11 the earth was asked to sprout forth "etz pri oseh pri" (fruit tree that makes fruit) , but in Genesis 1:12 it is stated that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri" (tree making fruit)

    If the earth had done what God had asked, in bringing forth "etz pri oseh pri" , then the "tov" in Genesis 1:12 would have been the 154th word. (which wouldn't have been good at all, since God saw it to be good that the earth brought forth "etz oseh pri")

    This being the big secret of scripture.

    Also worded as "felix culpa"

    Without sin there is also no forgiveness of sin.

    Lazarus ( = Eliezer) being the one to figure out these things
    Well, at least with your level of crazy, we don't have to worry about you sucking anyone else in, because nobody can follow your extreme nuttery.

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