Originally posted by Same Hakeem
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This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
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John 20:28, My Lord and My God
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostWasn't the father the word, after John 1:1?
How do you imagine that?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostI am not sure I am understanding your comment. The Word is identified as the incarnate Son in John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
God is not a man of flesh and blood.
It says: θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
λόγος = word
a word can be spoken, but then it needs lungs,a throat, palate tongue teeth, lips.
So
God was the word as written with letters.
God is a four-letter name.
Not a man.
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Postin John 1:1 it's plainly written that God was the word.
God is not a man of flesh and blood.
It says: θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
λόγος = word
a word can be spoken, but then it needs lungs,a throat, palate tongue teeth, lips.
So
God was the word as written with letters.
God is a four-letter name.
Not a man.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostActually the Word is said to be two things in John 1:1. First it says that the "Word was with God." Then after saying that the Word is someone with God, it say "the Word was God." The Word was not a man then. So you do not seem to be making any good sense here.
In any case it doesn't say that the word was Jesus of Nazaret, and also not that Jesus was God.
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostIn any case it doesn't say that the word was Jesus of Nazaret, and also not that Jesus was God.
Now that "Word" who is both God and "with God" (John 1:1-2) is identified as the one who became the man, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14. And you do not know this is Jesus of Nazareth? John 1:10 also explains, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, . . ."
Jesus taught that only God is sinless saying to the young rich man, who addressed Him as good, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18. So do you believe Jesus of Nazareth to be a sinner?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe opining subject was the "Word" who is twice said to be ""with God," John 1:1-2.
which denotes direction -- "the word was directed towards God"-- which is about the inner meaning, also called mystery.
not company
which is denoted by μετά "meta"
like in Matthew 28:20,
ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰμι , see I am with you
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:2-3.
διά = through -- everything happened through the word, and without it not one thing did happen
Jesus taught that only God is sinless saying to the young rich man, who addressed Him as good, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18.
So do you believe Jesus of Nazareth to be a sinner?
he did eat with sinners.
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostCompare John 1:3, πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν
with John 1:14, Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο
The word became flesh through the word that was in the beginning directed towards God, etc.
"And the word became flesh" doesn't mean "And God became man" , etc.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Postthe son reveals the father
John 1:18
Matthew 11:27
Luke 10:22
Isaiah 6;5, 8-10,". . . said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. . . . I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. . . .". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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John 1:14
καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν etc.
Most translations have "and dwelt among us"
A faulty translation due to the misunderstanding of the preceding "and the word became flesh"
ἐν = within
"among us" would have been μεθ' ἡμῶν -- μετά = with
The same ἐν used in John 14:20,
ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ γνώσεσθε ὑμεῖς ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρί μου καὶ ὑμεῖς ἐν ἐμοὶ κἀγὼ ἐν ὑμῖν
Here no one translates with "among us"
https://biblehub.com/john/14-20.htm
proving the trinitarian corruption
Question also was: who are/were the "we" of John 1:14?
" ...and we saw His glory..."
I bet only those who did receive the true light
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