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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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John 20:28, My Lord and My God

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  • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Saying the word (Jesus) be God and be God in John 1:1-2 means there is more than one God which is against the fact that God is one God in 1 Timothy 2:5 that "God is one God"
    Absolutly not. There is only one God. And the Word, John 1:1-3,, is the sole access to God, John 14:6.
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Absolutly not. There is only one God. And the Word, John 1:1-3,, is the sole access to God, John 14:6.
      If the Father is the "ONLY TRUE GOD" in John 17-1-3, how can Jesus be with God if Jesus is God?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
        If the Father is the "ONLY TRUE GOD" in John 17-1-3, how can Jesus be with God if Jesus is God?
        Jesus is the eternal Word of God. The Word of God is eternal. The Word became flesh.
        Last edited by Christian3; 04-22-2020, 12:24 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
          If the Father is the "ONLY TRUE GOD" in John 17-1-3, how can Jesus be with God if Jesus is God?
          God is uncause, invisible (John1:18), infinite, and omnipresent. Now in John 1:1-2 says twice that the Word was "with the God.° "The God," there is only the one God. Now the Word is how God makes Himself known. So when God does anything He does so by way of His Son (John 1:3). Acts are always finite, local and temporal. Something God is not without His Son. Now what has always been with God has to also to be God with the God or would not to have been always with the God. see Colossians 1:14-18.
          Last edited by 37818; 04-23-2020, 08:36 PM.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • Hakeem's bible:

            bibiecensored.jpg

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
              If the Father is the "ONLY TRUE GOD" in John 17-1-3, how can Jesus be with God if Jesus is God?
              YHWH is the only true God. Jesus called Him Father. The one true God is one God in three persons, Father His Word (son by relationship) and His spirit.

              It is the Word of God who was with the Father, the eternal Word of God. The Word of God is His agent for creation. You see God and His Word and His Spirit in the beginning of Genesis.

              The Word of God became flesh in the human body of Jesus of Nazareth. This happened about 2,000 years ago. Before that time Jesus of Nazareth as a man did not exist.

              The One True God is the only God as opposed to idols:

              2 Chronicles 15:

              3 For a long time Israel was without the true God, without a priest to teach and without the law. 4 But in their distress they turned to the LORD, the God of Israel, and sought him, and he was found by them. (Israel was worshiping idols then.)

              The true God vs idols.

              Jeremiah
              10 But the LORD is the true God;
              he is the living God, the eternal King.
              When he is angry, the earth trembles;
              the nations cannot endure his wrath.
              11 "Tell them this: 'These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.' "


              The true God vs idols.

              1 Thessalonians 1:9
              9for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,

              The true God vs idols

              1 John 5:20-21
              20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
              21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

              True God vs idols

              John 17:3

              John 17:3 (New International Version)
              3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

              True God vs false gods/idols

              Jesus is saying there is only one God/Creator -- YHWH.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                YHWH is the only true God. Jesus called Him Father. The one true God is one God in three persons, Father His Word (son by relationship) and His spirit.

                It is the Word of God who was with the Father, the eternal Word of God. The Word of God is His agent for creation. You see God and His Word and His Spirit in the beginning of Genesis.

                The Word of God became flesh in the human body of Jesus of Nazareth. This happened about 2,000 years ago. Before that time Jesus of Nazareth as a man did not exist.

                The One True God is the only God as opposed to idols:

                2 Chronicles 15:

                3 For a long time Israel was without the true God, without a priest to teach and without the law. 4 But in their distress they turned to the LORD, the God of Israel, and sought him, and he was found by them. (Israel was worshiping idols then.)

                The true God vs idols.

                Jeremiah
                10 But the LORD is the true God;
                he is the living God, the eternal King.
                When he is angry, the earth trembles;
                the nations cannot endure his wrath.
                11 "Tell them this: 'These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.' "


                The true God vs idols.

                1 Thessalonians 1:9
                9for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,

                The true God vs idols

                1 John 5:20-21
                20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
                21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

                True God vs idols

                John 17:3

                John 17:3 (New International Version)
                3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

                True God vs false gods/idols

                Jesus is saying there is only one God/Creator -- YHWH.
                You claiming "YHWH is the only true God. Jesus called Him Father. The one true God is one God in three persons, Father His Word (son by relationship) and His spirit" is not correct biblically because this one true God is ONLY the Father because Jesus described the Father as "THE ONLY TRUE GOD" in John 17:1-3. Secodn, the Holy Spirit cannot be God because Jesus denied that anyone knows when his second coming "BUT ONLY THE FATHER" in Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said "of that day and that hour no one knows not even the angels in heaven BUT ONLY THE FATHER"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                  You claiming "YHWH is the only true God. Jesus called Him Father. The one true God is one God in three persons, Father His Word (son by relationship) and His spirit" is not correct biblically because this one true God is ONLY the Father because Jesus described the Father as "THE ONLY TRUE GOD" in John 17:1-3. Secodn, the Holy Spirit cannot be God because Jesus denied that anyone knows when his second coming "BUT ONLY THE FATHER" in Matthew 24:36 where Jesus said "of that day and that hour no one knows not even the angels in heaven BUT ONLY THE FATHER"
                  Jesus explained this to His disciples, Acts 1:7, ". . . And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. . . ." The Son is not the Father.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                    Jesus is the eternal Word of God. The Word of God is eternal. The Word became flesh.
                    According to John 1:1-2, the Word (i.e. Jesus) was with God and the Word was God. This requires two GODS, which is polytheism.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Jesus explained this to His disciples, Acts 1:7, ". . . And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. . . ." The Son is not the Father.
                      You saying "The Son is not the Father" is true and the Son CANNOT be God because Jesus said in Rev 3:21 " I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne" proving that since God is one, Jesus cannot be God and be with God the Father.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                        You saying "The Son is not the Father" is true and the Son CANNOT be God because Jesus said in Rev 3:21 " I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne" proving that since God is one, Jesus cannot be God and be with God the Father.
                        Well what you are failing to understand is that the Person of the Son is both not God and and God to mankind. In the words of Jesus, John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

                        So to put it simply, except you also accept Jesus as the same God you are rejectiong God the Father. Even though the Son is not the Father.
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                          John 20:28

                          28 Thomas responded to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

                          Some commentaries say that what Thomas really said was: "The Lord of me and the God of me."

                          Is that true?

                          Thanks.
                          Most probably not.

                          Within that gospel we need to consider the use of the word Lord and its various connotations. At a human level in Hebrew and Aramaic the title ‘Lord’ (i.e. Master or ‘Sir’) is regularly used and denotes persons in position of authority. Likewise the King is invoked as ‘Lord’ as is the Roman Emperor. On the religious side the Aramaic’mar/mari’ in the sense of ‘master’ also refers to a teacher (see also Hebrew ‘rab’ and ‘rabbi’).

                          At the very top of this ranking but still human the term is applied to Elijah and to the Messiah “when will the Lord come?’ .
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                            John 20:28

                            28 Thomas responded to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

                            Some commentaries say that what Thomas really said was: "The Lord of me and the God of me."

                            Is that true?

                            Thanks.
                            That is true. Lord being the man, and also being God.
                            See Matthew 22:43-45, verse 44, the Greek word for Lord is used once of God [YHWH] and then of the man whom David calls Lord. See also Psalms 110:1. Acts 2:34.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              That is true. Lord being the man, and also being God.
                              See Matthew 22:43-45, verse 44, the Greek word for Lord is used once of God [YHWH] and then of the man whom David calls Lord. See also Psalms 110:1. Acts 2:34.
                              Of course it could be a variant on the mode of address demanded by Domitian. Suetonius in The Twelve Caesars recounts the following:

                              "With equal arrogance, when he dictated the form of a letter to be used by his procurators, he began it thus: " Our lord and god commands so and so;" whence it became a rule that no one should style him otherwise either in writing or speaking."
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                Of course it could be a variant on the mode of address demanded by Domitian. Suetonius in The Twelve Caesars recounts the following:

                                "With equal arrogance, when he dictated the form of a letter to be used by his procurators, he began it thus: " Our lord and god commands so and so;" whence it became a rule that no one should style him otherwise either in writing or speaking."
                                What is its dating?

                                In any case that does not change the interpretation I gave, Jesus as both the man and God the Creator. 1 Timothy 2:5, being the man and Colossians 1:16-17, being the Creator, John 1:10.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                                Comment

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