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Thread: John 20:28, My Lord and My God

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    tWebber
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    John 20:28, My Lord and My God

    John 20:28

    28 Thomas responded to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Some commentaries say that what Thomas really said was: "The Lord of me and the God of me."

    Is that true?

    Thanks.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Yes. That is literal reading of the Greek text:

    . . . ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου.

    ο κυριος - the Lord
    μου - of me
    και - and
    ο θεος - the God
    μου - of me

    Thomas address Jesus as both his Lord and his God. Jesus was Lord being the man and God being the Son (John 5:23-24; John 14:6, 9; 1 John 5:20; John 17:3).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    yeah the greek interlinear is great to show Jehovah's Witnesses. They have no response since it clearly show Thomas calling Jesus his God. One tried to to tell me that was just a figure of speech. well it would be a very blasphemous figure of speech and Jesus would have corrected him.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Yes. That is literal reading of the Greek text:

    . . . ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου.

    ο κυριος - the Lord
    μου - of me
    και - and
    ο θεος - the God
    μου - of me

    Thomas address Jesus as both his Lord and his God. Jesus was Lord being the man and God being the Son (John 5:23-24; John 14:6, 9; 1 John 5:20; John 17:3).
    Excellent.

    Thank you.

  7. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Rushing Jaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    yeah the greek interlinear is great to show Jehovah's Witnesses. They have no response since it clearly show Thomas calling Jesus his God. One tried to to tell me that was just a figure of speech. well it would be a very blasphemous figure of speech and Jesus would have corrected him.
    The only way out - not that this works either - is to say that St Thomas was addressing Jesus as Lord, and the Father as God. But that interptetation is - in this context - forced and unnatural, and ignores the "blasphemous" statements by Jesus in the same Gospel, to which this is connected: Jesus has claimed to be God in earlier passages - and in this passage, after His Resurrection, we have one of His Disciples confessing and recognising His Deity. The passage should be compared with other NT acknowledgements of Jesus' Messiahship, Lordship, or Deity - as well with the denials or rejections of them.

    Elsewhere, there are passages that call Jesus "Lord", and the Father "God" - but such passages, rather than denying the Deity of Christ, show that He is not the Father. That He is not the Father, does not mean He is not God.

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    tWebber
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    "Lord of me" is the normal Greek syntax for "my Lord." There's no question what the sentence says. Theodore of Mopsuestia (an ancient theologian whose theology was eventually rejected) thought it was an exclamation of praise to God, not a specific statement about Jesus. Almost no one currently agrees with this. Just how Jesus is God, however, isn't visible in this verse, but requires explanation based on other passages. John 1 would be a good starting point.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    In the text Thomas explicitly address Jesus as his Lord and God. ". . . And Thomas answered and said unto Him, . . ." . . . και απεκριθη ο θωμας και ειπεν αυτω . . . .
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber
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    I'm not sure how many readers of this site accept higher criticism. For those that do, it's worth noting that all three of the modern commentaries I have don't think Jesus himself actually said these words. Rather they reflect John's theology, a more complex expression of which is in John 1. That doesn't mean it's wrong, of course.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedrick View Post
    I'm not sure how many readers of this site accept higher criticism. For those that do, it's worth noting that all three of the modern commentaries I have don't think Jesus himself actually said these words. Rather they reflect John's theology, a more complex expression of which is in John 1. That doesn't mean it's wrong, of course.
    So according to higher criticism, what John wrote was not really true. But writing what was not really true is not really wrong.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    So according to higher criticism, what John wrote was not really true. But writing what was not really true is not really wrong.
    I take an intermediate position on ethics. In a time when people didn't carry iPhones to record, I think it's reasonable that writers created dialog that they thought was appropriate. That leads to somewhat flexible criteria about dialog.

    I'm less forgiving of writers claiming to be who they aren't.

    [Incidentally, I do accept the theology of John 1. But I think we should distinguish between what Jesus said during his life and insights developed by the Christian community after the Resurrection. Even if John didn't always make that distinction clear.]
    Last edited by hedrick; 09-17-2017 at 09:51 PM.

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