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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

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John 20:28, My Lord and My God

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    The Son is God.
    why do you need a son ( a man) to be God?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
      why do you need a son ( a man) to be God?
      The Son took on humanity in order to reach out to us and show us the way to salvation and to be the sacrifice for our sins.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        When speaking of the same function - i.e. the savior of mankind and the world, then no, there are not two saviors. YHWH said he is the ONLY Savior and Jesus is the Savior of mankind and the world. Same with the other titles, like Judge. It is not speaking of any judge, but who will judge between the sheep and goats. YHWH says he will do it, and Jesus says he will do it. YHWH said he created the earth BY HIMSELF, with no one beside him, him alone. Yet John and Colossians say Jesus created everything.

        The conclusion is obvious: Jesus is YHWH. The Father is YHWH. The Holy Spirit is YHWH. There is only one YHWH. Therefore YHWH is a trinity of three persons revealed as one God.
        If “same function” ( whatever that means) makes someone God, then you have to concede that the saints are also God , since like “God the Son” the bible refers to them as “the light of the World.” And so on...

        You are engaging in biblical eisegesis.

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        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          The Son took on humanity in order to reach out to us and show us the way to salvation and to be the sacrifice for our sins.
          But you are making stuff up though. No bible verse says “the son took on humanity.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
            why do you need a son ( a man) to be God?
            Especially since the bible declares that God is not a man, nor a son of man.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              The Son took on humanity
              "basar", flesh, does not mean "man"

              John 1:14 is after Isaiah 40, which also presents a play on "basar/ b'sorah"

              v. 6-9 A voice says, "Call!" and it says, "What shall I call?" "All flesh is grass, and all its kindness is like the blossom of the field. The grass shall dry out, the blossom shall wilt, for a wind from the Lord has blown upon it; behold the people is grass. The grass shall dry out, the blossom shall wilt, but the word of our God shall stand forever. Upon a lofty mountain ascend, O herald of Zion, raise your voice with strength, O herald of Jerusalem; raise [your voice], fear not; say to the cities of Judah, "Behold your God!"


              herald = "'m'baseret" = gospelpreacher, bringer of good tidings

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              • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                If “same function” ( whatever that means) makes someone God, then you have to concede that the saints are also God , since like “God the Son” the bible refers to them as “the light of the World.” And so on...

                You are engaging in biblical eisegesis.
                Keep wiggling Uni. If anyone is engaging in eisegesis here it is you.

                As I have shown, the Son does everything YHWH does. It is especially relevant that YHWH says he does such things himself, with no other, and the NT says Jesus will be doing those things (Savior, Creator, Judge, etc)

                Who do you think the Son is? He is not created, he created everything. So who is he?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  Who do you think the Son is? He is not created, he created everything. So who is he?

                  It also never says that Nebuchadnezar was created, or Peter, or Paul, or Barabbas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                    It also never says that Nebuchadnezar was created, or Peter, or Paul, or Barabbas


                    Go back to sleep Silvius.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      When speaking of the same function - i.e. the savior of mankind and the world, then no, there are not two saviors. YHWH said he is the ONLY Savior and Jesus is the Savior of mankind and the world. Same with the other titles, like Judge. It is not speaking of any judge, but who will judge between the sheep and goats. YHWH says he will do it, and Jesus says he will do it. YHWH said he created the earth BY HIMSELF, with no one beside him, him alone. Yet John and Colossians say Jesus created everything.

                      The conclusion is obvious: Jesus is YHWH. The Father is YHWH. The Holy Spirit is YHWH. There is only one YHWH. Therefore YHWH is a trinity of three persons revealed as one God.
                      . Even though “YHWH” said he is the “only” “Saviour,” there are others who are called Saviours proving that that term applies to them in a different fashion .

                      Ben Kenaz was a Saviour of God’s people Israel. God says that he is the Saviour of his people Israel. According to your “logic,” this would make Othniel god. Your position is just not sensible I’m afraid.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Keep wiggling Uni. If anyone is engaging in eisegesis here it is you.

                        As I have shown, the Son does everything YHWH does. It is especially relevant that YHWH says he does such things himself, with no other, and the NT says Jesus will be doing those things (Savior, Creator, Judge, etc)

                        Who do you think the Son is? He is not created, he created everything. So who is he?
                        The son does everything that God shows him, not everything that God has ever done.

                        Also, where are you getting the notion that the Son is not created ? The opposite is the case — he was a human being ( by definition that makes him a creature ). Come on friend, be reasonable.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                          . Even though “YHWH” said he is the “only” “Saviour,” there are others who are called Saviours proving that that term applies to them in a different fashion .

                          Ben Kenaz was a Saviour of God’s people Israel. God says that he is the Saviour of his people Israel. According to your “logic,” this would make Othniel god. Your position is just not sensible I’m afraid.
                          again, the bible is speaking of the ultimate Savior of mankind, not some local savior. You are trying to play word games. Transparently I might add. And you are also ignoring that YHWH said he created everything by himself with no one beside him and yet John 1 and Colossians say that the Son created everything. Even if we take your interpretation that God created through the Son somehow, it would still contradict YHWH who said he created by himself.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                            The son does everything that God shows him, not everything that God has ever done.

                            Also, where are you getting the notion that the Son is not created ? The opposite is the case — he was a human being ( by definition that makes him a creature ). Come on friend, be reasonable.
                            The Son was not created. The Son is the Word who was with God (the Father) in the beginning. Colossians says that everything was created through and for him. How do you think that could be if he didn't exist until he was born as Jesus?

                            The whole point of John 1 is to show that the Son/Word existed before the incarnation and that he took on flesh as Jesus.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              again, the bible is speaking of the ultimate Savior of mankind, not some local savior. You are trying to play word games. Transparently I might add. And you are also ignoring that YHWH said he created everything by himself with no one beside him and yet John 1 and Colossians say that the Son created everything. Even if we take your interpretation that God created through the Son somehow, it would still contradict YHWH who said he created by himself.
                              “Ultimate Saviour” ? The bible is not a Marvel Comic.

                              When the bible says Jesus is the “saviour” of mankind, it means that he is the one who saves them from their sins, precisely something the Father could not do (since he is unable to die). So the opposite of your assertion is true.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                The Son was not created. The Son is the Word who was with God (the Father) in the beginning. Colossians says that everything was created through and for him. How do you think that could be if he didn't exist until he was born as Jesus?

                                The whole point of John 1 is to show that the Son/Word existed before the incarnation and that he took on flesh as Jesus.
                                How can you say the son was not created, when by definition a human being ( which the son was) is a creature ?

                                Comment

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