Announcement

Collapse

Biblical Languages 301 Guidelines

This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

John 20:28, My Lord and My God

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Thanks. As good as yours was.
    I wonder if modalists think God lost consciousness for a few years? Humans don't have self awareness until about 18 months afeter birth and don't have theory of mind until about 4. So, until His brain developed wnough, what happened?
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
      But you cannot point to a single verse where Jesus is called “God.”

      John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

      2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

      Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

        2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

        Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
        He's not a modalist? Having an innocent human die as a sacrifice would be unethical . God the Son taking on human flesh and then dying a shameful death is the greatest act of love. The greatest act of love is to lay down one's own life, not to push someone else in front of the trolley to save others.
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          The Word is the second person of the Trinity, God the Son. Who became "Jesus" when he took on flesh. They are the same person.

          The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth (John 1:14).
          Interestingly, in the Jewish Targums (Aramaic paraphrases of the Hebrew scriptures), "the Word of the Lord" is often a metonymy for "YHWH". Positing that John was familiar with the Jewish Targums and used language from them provides an explanation for much of the unique language John used in his gospel (and helps tie the epistles of John and Revelation to the same writer as well).
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Thanks. As good as yours was.
            I'm not the one asserting that the bible teaches that God is a Trinity of "persons" . Ever heard of onus probandi ?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Interestingly, in the Jewish Targums (Aramaic paraphrases of the Hebrew scriptures), "the Word of the Lord" is often a metonymy for "YHWH". Positing that John was familiar with the Jewish Targums and used language from them provides an explanation for much of the unique language John used in his gospel (and helps tie the epistles of John and Revelation to the same writer as well).
              How many times is the word ὁ λόγος / λόγος used in the GNT ?
              Last edited by Unitarian101; 12-18-2019, 05:46 PM.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

                2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

                Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
                I'll just take the first one for now, John 20:28 -- Here we have a TSKTS (Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου) construction which means that the exclamation has two people in mind, "My Lord" (meaning Jesus) and "my God" (meaning the Father, living in Jesus). Check John Chapter 14 (verse, 9 etc) for context..

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                  I'm not the one asserting that the bible teaches that God is a Trinity of "persons" . Ever heard of onus probandi ?
                  No the bible never literally says that God is a Trinity. But it is scriptural when you reconcile the various passages that say the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and that there is only one true God. So either Jesus and the Holy Spirit are false gods or they are the same God as the Father. And we know that they are not the same person, because Jesus prays to the Father, and the Father spoke about the Son while the Son was being baptized and Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit as another person that he would send.

                  Jesus is also said to be the ultimate judge over all. and the creator. And is one with the Father.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                    I'll just take the first one for now, John 20:28 -- Here we have a TSKTS (Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου) construction which means that the exclamation has two people in mind, "My Lord" (meaning Jesus) and "my God" (meaning the Father, living in Jesus). Check John Chapter 14 (verse, 9 etc) for context..
                    Jn 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?

                    oopsie. How do you explain Jesus indwelling the Father?

                    Last edited by Sparko; 12-19-2019, 09:30 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                      How many times is the word ὁ λόγος / λόγος used in the GNT ?
                      Taking refuge in counting games, eh?

                      I'm not posting here to shake you from your obduracy; I'm merely providing an interesting observation to others (which happens to make your argument moot).
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Unitarian101 View Post
                        I'll just take the first one for now, John 20:28 -- Here we have a TSKTS (Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου) construction which means that the exclamation has two people in mind, "My Lord" (meaning Jesus) and "my God" (meaning the Father, living in Jesus). Check John Chapter 14 (verse, 9 etc) for context..
                        Begging the question!
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Nah

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            Taking refuge in counting games, eh?

                            I'm not posting here to shake you from your obduracy; I'm merely providing an interesting observation to others (which happens to make your argument moot).
                            Simple question....

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I think that the reason that people hold to these heresies is due to the distinction we tend to see, especially in Paul's letters. Paul often speaks of God and Jesus distinctly. However, this distinction doesn't require that Jesus not be God incarnate (in accord with the Trinity description). The reason that Jesus is mentioned distinctly is because he is the one who was seen in the flesh -- and of course is the central act of God in redeeming humanity. Due to his centrality and being of flesh among us, he is the physical embodiment of the message of God to humanity. He is the priest that suffered all the things that we suffer. We then should find it rather natural that Jesus isn't blended inconspicuously into the Godhead in Paul's writing.

                              Unitarian, it is roughly possible that the Trinity doctrine is lacking in some sense. As I have told JWs, you need to come out with an exhaustive explanation of your view in order to overcome the Trinity argument; otherwise, it is shaky ground to just say that you have a better idea -- it is worse that you try to promote your idea without overcoming the Trinity doctrine in its fullest expression.

                              Which rejected view do you hold?
                              1. Jesus was born purely flesh but was filled with Deity at the baptism
                              2. Jesus was human flesh but the mind of God from birth
                              3. Jesus, from birth, had conflicting will of the human will and God's will
                              4. Jesus only appeared to have a human body
                              5. Jesus was a lower form of deity

                              There are possibly some other choices at this site: https://coldcasechristianity.com/wri...ture-of-jesus/

                              All of these heresies remove the basis (or consistency) for God's justification of humanity through Jesus' life, death on the cross and resurrection.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Question: How many times is the word ὁ λόγος / λόγος used in the GNT ?

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X