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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

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John 20:28, My Lord and My God

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  • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Jesus said in John 5:30 "I can do nothing by Myself"
    Yes, and the Father does nothing without the Word (John 1:14) who is His Son, John 1:3. Ephseians 3:9, ". . . in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . ." Colossians 1:14-18, ". . . In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. . . ."
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Yes, and the Father does nothing without the Word
      Wasn't the father the word, after John 1:1?

      How do you imagine that?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
        Wasn't the father the word, after John 1:1?

        How do you imagine that?
        I am not sure I am understanding your comment. The Word is identified as the incarnate Son in John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          I am not sure I am understanding your comment. The Word is identified as the incarnate Son in John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
          in John 1:1 it's plainly written that God was the word.

          God is not a man of flesh and blood.

          It says: θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

          λόγος = word

          a word can be spoken, but then it needs lungs,a throat, palate tongue teeth, lips.

          So
          God was the word as written with letters.

          God is a four-letter name.

          Not a man.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
            in John 1:1 it's plainly written that God was the word.

            God is not a man of flesh and blood.

            It says: θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

            λόγος = word

            a word can be spoken, but then it needs lungs,a throat, palate tongue teeth, lips.

            So
            God was the word as written with letters.

            God is a four-letter name.

            Not a man.
            Actually the Word is said to be two things in John 1:1. First it says that the "Word was with God." Then after saying that the Word is someone with God, it say "the Word was God." The Word was not a man then. So you do not seem to be making any good sense here.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              Actually the Word is said to be two things in John 1:1. First it says that the "Word was with God." Then after saying that the Word is someone with God, it say "the Word was God." The Word was not a man then. So you do not seem to be making any good sense here.

              In any case it doesn't say that the word was Jesus of Nazaret, and also not that Jesus was God.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                In any case it doesn't say that the word was Jesus of Nazaret, and also not that Jesus was God.
                The opining subject was the "Word" who is twice said to be ""with God," John 1:1-2. And yes the Word is idetified as God in that it is stated "the Word was God," and nothing is caused except by the Word who is identifed as being "with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:2-3.

                Now that "Word" who is both God and "with God" (John 1:1-2) is identified as the one who became the man, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14. And you do not know this is Jesus of Nazareth? John 1:10 also explains, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, . . ."

                Jesus taught that only God is sinless saying to the young rich man, who addressed Him as good, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18. So do you believe Jesus of Nazareth to be a sinner?
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  The opining subject was the "Word" who is twice said to be ""with God," John 1:1-2.
                  the word πρός "pros" is used

                  which denotes direction -- "the word was directed towards God"-- which is about the inner meaning, also called mystery.

                  not company
                  which is denoted by μετά "meta"

                  like in Matthew 28:20,
                  ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰμι , see I am with you



                  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:2-3.
                  Greek : πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν.

                  διά = through -- everything happened through the word, and without it not one thing did happen


                  Jesus taught that only God is sinless saying to the young rich man, who addressed Him as good, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." Mark 10:18.
                  good = sinless?


                  So do you believe Jesus of Nazareth to be a sinner?
                  I do not know nothing about Jesus's sins.

                  he did eat with sinners.

                  Comment


                  • Compare John 1:3, πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν

                    with John 1:14, Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο

                    The word became flesh through the word that was in the beginning directed towards God, etc.

                    "And the word became flesh" doesn't mean "And God became man" , etc.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                      Compare John 1:3, πάντα δι' αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν

                      with John 1:14, Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο

                      The word became flesh through the word that was in the beginning directed towards God, etc.

                      "And the word became flesh" doesn't mean "And God became man" , etc.
                      God did not change. How the Word was with God did change.
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        God did not change. How the Word was with God did change.
                        the son reveals the father

                        John 1:18
                        Matthew 11:27
                        Luke 10:22

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                          the son reveals the father

                          John 1:18
                          Matthew 11:27
                          Luke 10:22
                          John 12:40-41, "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him."

                          Isaiah 6;5, 8-10,". . . said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. . . . I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. . . ."
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • The Word in John 1 is Jesus! Claiming otherwise is as asinine to me as if someone claimed that Clark Kent couldn't be Superman because Clark wears glasses.
                            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                              The Word in John 1 is Jesus! Claiming otherwise is as asinine to me as if someone claimed that Clark Kent couldn't be Superman because Clark wears glasses.
                              Wait, what? Clark Kent is Superman?

                              Comment


                              • John 1:14
                                καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν etc.

                                Most translations have "and dwelt among us"

                                A faulty translation due to the misunderstanding of the preceding "and the word became flesh"

                                ἐν = within

                                "among us" would have been μεθ' ἡμῶν -- μετά = with

                                The same ἐν used in John 14:20,
                                ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ γνώσεσθε ὑμεῖς ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρί μου καὶ ὑμεῖς ἐν ἐμοὶ κἀγὼ ἐν ὑμῖν

                                Here no one translates with "among us"
                                https://biblehub.com/john/14-20.htm

                                proving the trinitarian corruption

                                Question also was: who are/were the "we" of John 1:14?

                                " ...and we saw His glory..."

                                I bet only those who did receive the true light

                                Comment

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