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Thread: Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human?

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    tWebber
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    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human?

    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

    Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

    I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

    What do you guys think?

    Thank you.

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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

    Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

    I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

    What do you guys think?

    Thank you.
    If they aren't saved by the incarnate Word of God they aren't saved at all, no matter what they might be personally feeling.

    If Jesus was only human it wouldn't have been possible for him to be sinless.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    If they aren't saved by the incarnate Word of God they aren't saved at all, no matter what they might be personally feeling.

    If Jesus was only human it wouldn't have been possible for him to be sinless.
    That is my thought as well -- could Jesus as a man have been sinless?

    The Unitarian said that he recognises that he is a sinner, tries to follow Jesus' commands and was baptised and he thinks that is enough.

    I say it is not enough.

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    Maybe those who hold to the moral influence theory could make that case, but I don't think that model of atonement is supported by Scripture.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?”
    For it is not wise to ask such questions. - Ecclesiastes 7:10

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    . . . -- could Jesus as a man have been sinless?
    Not being only the man.

    Romans 3:10,
    . . . As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: . . .

    Mark 10:17-18,
    . . . there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is,] God. . . .
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  6. Amen lee_merrill, Obsidian amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?
    This looks like an internal dispute among believers. I don't see what it's doing in an apologetics thread.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

    Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

    I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

    What do you guys think?
    God engineered the system - it all depends on how he chose to implement it (what ransom he chose to set). If he chose it so that it required a man-god to die a painful death, then it required a man-god to die a painful death. He could have implemented it so he could just say "I forgive you all" without anyone dying, but clearly decided not to.

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    tWebber
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    Hypothetically, yes, as God is able to do whatever He so pleases, so long as it's not self-contradictory (a circular square).

    There were those in the early church who believed that Jesus had been adopted by God at the time of his baptism, though I don't know how you can easily reconcile that with the Carmen Christi or much of Paul's Christology.

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    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    There are supposedly orthodox views on the kenotic theory that might answer this question to your satisfaction. The book "Exploring Kenotic Christology: The Self-Emptying of God" has a number of essays from leading Christian philosophers and theologians who attempt to answer this in the positive. Some of the contributors include Gordon Fee, Stephen T. Davis, and Cornelius Plantinga, Jr. (Alvin's younger brother). I actually have this, but never got around to reading it.

  11. Amen psstein amen'd this post.
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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian3 View Post
    Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human, instead of God-man?

    Since Jesus Christ was sinless wouldn't He be an appropriate, acceptable and legal ransom?

    I've encountered two Unitarians who claim they are saved by the sinless man, Jesus, and Jesus did not have to be the incarnate Word of God in order to save them.

    What do you guys think?

    Thank you.
    No. A sinless sacrifice may have been sufficient to cover our sins, but could not renew our nature.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  13. Amen JB DoulosChristou amen'd this post.

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